Hawaii Stryker Brigade

[808shooter]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

I don't care if the military offers the state $100 billion. NO, NO, NO to the Stryker Brigade.

First, the military tried to be sneaky by "pushing" it through without adequately looking at other options, then they try to bribe us with money. Same old thing. Thank god for the many environmental and activitst groups that opposed the Brigade and brought it to the forefront so that everyone in Hawaii knows what the military is trying to do. Aloha

Is the basis for your objection a Nimby mentality?

What exactly is it that offends you about our Senator Inouye trying to bolster one of the islands economic pillars - the military? You think Inouye isn't the reason for the army deploying the Stryker brigade here? It's politics. He is the ranking democrat on the powerful senate appropriations committee. The army is probably under severe pressure to base one of the Stryker brigades here. I'd imagine that with Inouye's increased influence since the Dems took over the senate a carrier group is to follow.

Make no mistake, the influence of Inouye will be sorely missed upon his retirement. We should enjoy the pork while it's plentiful.

No offense intended, I'd just like some interactive discussion here. No one seems to feel my posts are response worthy. Haven't gotten too many bites yet.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

what is your objection to not having the Stryker brigade trained in Hawai'i if they could get the same (or better) training somewhere else?

Training is not something you can do every now and then. To maintain proficiently, one has to train often. Perhaps even monthly. How practical is it to ship off a unit every month from training? Not very. Now, big full scale training may not be every month. But I don't think you can maintain proficiency when you don't drive it for months at a time either.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Is the basis for your objection a Nimby mentality?

What exactly is it that offends you about our Senator Inouye trying to bolster one of the islands economic pillars - the military? You think Inouye isn't the reason for the army deploying the Stryker brigade here? It's politics. He is the ranking democrat on the powerful senate appropriations committee. The army is probably under severe pressure to base one of the Stryker brigades here. I'd imagine that with Inouye's increased influence since the Dems took over the senate a carrier group is to follow.

Make no mistake, the influence of Inouye will be sorely missed upon his retirement. We should enjoy the pork while it's plentiful.

No offense intended, I'd just like some interactive discussion here. No one seems to feel my posts are response worthy. Haven't gotten too many bites yet.

I agree, I think Inouye and the concept of pork-barreling has a lot to do with the amount of military spending in Hawaii. Get it while it's good because when that man steps down, I'm pretty sure you will see military spending drop in Hawaii significantly. Hawaii is still a strategic location but with technology advancing the range of all military weapons and sensors, the value has somewhat diminished. Guam's the new high value location, it's being turned into a mega fortress these days, 8,000 marines being relocated there, possible homeporting of carrier, etc.

The relationship with the military has always been one of love-hate. So you caught them lying. Good, then make them rectify the problem. But the mentality of beat it, let's not let them locate a brigade here period really is shooting yourself in the foot. We're losing agriculture as a column for this state's economy. Now you want to undermine the military column, so we're gonna just rely on tourism? Guess people have already forgotten how something like 9/11 can totally devastate that column.

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Training is not something you can do every now and then. To maintain proficiently, one has to train often. Perhaps even monthly. How practical is it to ship off a unit every month from training? Not very. Now, big full scale training may not be every month. But I don't think you can maintain proficiency when you don't drive it for months at a time either.

Exactly. Although my son and his unit is not "training" Fully ~ they are in constant training. They have to. Their lives depend on it. Still the need to operate and know the mechanics of the Strykers is essential when they go into combat.

From http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/stryker/index.html

STRYKER

Mission

"To fulfill an immediate requirement in the Army’s current transformation process to equip a strategically deployable (C-17/C-5) and operationally deployable (C-130) brigade capable of rapid movement anywhere on the globe in a combat ready configuration. The armored wheeled vehicle is designed to enable the Stryker Brigade Combat Team (SBCT) to maneuver more easily in close and urban terrain while providing protection in open terrain."

Auntie Lynn

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

The relationship with the military has always been one of love-hate. So you caught them lying. Good, then make them rectify the problem. But the mentality of beat it, let's not let them locate a brigade here period really is shooting yourself in the foot.

• After bombing Kaho'olawe for years, the Navy spent $400 million and still failed to clean up the unexploded bombs to a safe level as was promised in a legal agreement.
• The Marine Corps condemned the Kamaka family land in Waikane after leasing it for live fire training and contaminating it with unexploded munitions. Recently the Marines said they want to resume training in Waikane.
• When Makua residents were evicted during World War II, the Army promised to return the land 6 months after the war. But the Army still bombs and contaminates Makua. Live fire training, toxic chemicals, fires and unexploded ordnance threaten human health and safety, endangered species and Hawaiian cultural practices.
• With over 36 fish ponds, Ke Awalau o Pu‘uloa (Pearl Harbor) was once a rich source of food for Oÿahu in ancient times. Today, under military control, Pearl Harbor has become extremely contaminated, with nearly 750 contaminated sites (several of which are Superfund sites) identified by the Navy. It is no longer safe to eat anything from Pearl Harbor.

source: http://www.afschawaii.org/dmz/link_pages/about.html

How do you suggest "making them rectify" the problem?

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

"Hawaii is not Terrorist Free, if the day should ever arrive ~ rest assured we are well protected by all branches of the Military!" What has been done in the past is a shame. We can only hope that some things can be and should be rectified if it can. In the future both the Military and the people of Hawai'i must work together to make sure nothing occurs again. We are one Nation ~ The United States of America. Until such time "if" that changes we must fight the horrors of Terrorism together.

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

I agree, I think Inouye and the concept of pork-barreling has a lot to do with the amount of military spending in Hawaii. Get it while it's good because when that man steps down, I'm pretty sure you will see military spending drop in Hawaii significantly. Hawaii is still a strategic location but with technology advancing the range of all military weapons and sensors, the value has somewhat diminished. Guam's the new high value location, it's being turned into a mega fortress these days, 8,000 marines being relocated there, possible homeporting of carrier, etc.

The relationship with the military has always been one of love-hate. So you caught them lying. Good, then make them rectify the problem. But the mentality of beat it, let's not let them locate a brigade here period really is shooting yourself in the foot. We're losing agriculture as a column for this state's economy. Now you want to undermine the military column, so we're gonna just rely on tourism? Guess people have already forgotten how something like 9/11 can totally devastate that column.

Pork barrel politics has got to go. "We'll just get ours for as long as we can and to hell with everybody else" is what has partially gotten us into the awful fiscal mess the country faces today. Are highway beautification projects in a state (any state) more important than helping rebuild the devastated areas of the Gulf Coast, for instance? I don't think so.

If Congress is to help the American taxpayer, it should be setting up a prioritization process, just like any business would, to determine what's most important to spend scarce resources on. Backroom deals (like Inouye has with Stevens of AK) do not serve this country well. I know this old boy network has been cutting deals with each other for years, but maybe now is the time to start changing that.

It'll be interesting to see what the new Congress, which has a new crop of "moderate Democrats" who are fiscally conservative, will do with porkbarrel spending. Wouldn't it be great if the middle class could see its taxes cut but also see important things like No Child Left Behind fully funded so that our public school kids could get the educations they deserve? I'm also not saying that Pearl Harbor or the Stryker training facility should not get funded; but both should have to compete on their own merits rather than because of some backroom deal for votes in Congress.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

• After bombing Kaho'olawe for years, the Navy spent $400 million and still failed to clean up the unexploded bombs to a safe level as was promised in a legal agreement.
• The Marine Corps condemned the Kamaka family land in Waikane after leasing it for live fire training and contaminating it with unexploded munitions. Recently the Marines said they want to resume training in Waikane.
• When Makua residents were evicted during World War II, the Army promised to return the land 6 months after the war. But the Army still bombs and contaminates Makua. Live fire training, toxic chemicals, fires and unexploded ordnance threaten human health and safety, endangered species and Hawaiian cultural practices.
• With over 36 fish ponds, Ke Awalau o Pu‘uloa (Pearl Harbor) was once a rich source of food for Oÿahu in ancient times. Today, under military control, Pearl Harbor has become extremely contaminated, with nearly 750 contaminated sites (several of which are Superfund sites) identified by the Navy. It is no longer safe to eat anything from Pearl Harbor.

source: http://www.afschawaii.org/dmz/link_pages/about.html

How do you suggest "making them rectify" the problem?

Take each issue separately. Kaho'olawe, there's a legal agreement. Sue them for breach of contract. Use that money to hire private entities to complete the cleaning. As for the others, more legal challenges. It got Kaho'olawe back, didn't it? But at some point, you need to accept certain things such as Pearl Harbor being in the military's possession, not unless your goals are to completely evict them out of the state. But if that is the case, refer back to my previous post, you are merely putting the state more and more on just tourism.

[Kahalu'u Kid]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Is the basis for your objection a Nimby mentality?

What exactly is it that offends you about our Senator Inouye trying to bolster one of the islands economic pillars - the military? You think Inouye isn't the reason for the army deploying the Stryker brigade here? It's politics. He is the ranking democrat on the powerful senate appropriations committee. The army is probably under severe pressure to base one of the Stryker brigades here. I'd imagine that with Inouye's increased influence since the Dems took over the senate a carrier group is to follow.

Make no mistake, the influence of Inouye will be sorely missed upon his retirement. We should enjoy the pork while it's plentiful.

No offense intended, I'd just like some interactive discussion here. No one seems to feel my posts are response worthy. Haven't gotten too many bites yet.

Aloha 808 shooter. First of all, I don't really care about the reasons why or how the Stryker Brigade came to be in Hawaii, I'm just against it due to an inherent mistrust of the military (I've also seen firsthand how the US military operates in countries like Japan), along with the damage it will do to our 'aina and Hawaiian cultural heritage. (Doesn't the military already use enough Hawaiian land?). Secondly, from a purely numbers standpoint, sure the military gives the state a lot of money, but to me there are, many more valuable things than money here in Hawaii 'nei, the 'aina and Hawaiian culture being at the top of my list. I also think it's sad if we rely on the military as one of our economic pillars. I guess if you need a list of reasons, check Pua'i Mana'o's reasons again. I agree 100% with him. By the way, I know the Kamaka family in Waikane, so the military is not in good standing with dis bruddah. Aloha

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Oahu's infrastructure can barely support the population as is. Has anybody ever given a thought as to what kind of an impact these Military proposals (Striker Brigade, Carrier Battle groups) will have on our overburdened roadways, etc?

[Deep Thought]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

I dunno but compared to the carrier group the stryker brigade is peanuts.

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

I dunno but compared to the carrier group the stryker brigade is peanuts.

Excuse me. It's like Apples and Oranges. Of course, carriers and tanks? Duh?

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

I dunno but compared to the carrier group the stryker brigade is peanuts.

Yes but the brigade will still bring in an influx of over 3000 troops and their families. Anybody that has taken the time to step out of their house for a minute knows how busy and congested Oahu has become. Even with the enviornmental impact that such a brigade will have aside, the number of people moving here because of Military orders is less than desireable.

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Yes but the brigade will still bring in an influx of over 3000 troops and their families. Anybody that has taken the time to step out of their house for a minute knows how busy and congested Oahu has become. Even with the enviornmental impact that such a brigade will have aside, the number of people moving here because of Military orders is less than desireable.

Eh! My son wuz born and raised hea!

Auntie Lynn

[poinographer]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Hmmm, you know, maybe we've stumbled onto the solution:

Stryker Brigade and Carrier Task Force as part of the Hawaii National Guard---all the pork, much less population/congestion impact. That's not the way the game is played, though. There is no Hawaii Navy, for starters...