Hawaii Stryker Brigade

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Hmmm, you know, maybe we've stumbled onto the solution:

Stryker Brigade and Carrier Task Force as part of the Hawaii National Guard---all the pork, much less population/congestion impact. That's not the way the game is played, though. There is no Hawaii Navy, for starters...

heheheh

Bright and Early thinking like you always do Doug.

Happy Thanksgiving 2006!

Auntie Lynn

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Eh! My son wuz born and raised hea!

Auntie Lynn

Auntie, we are talking about an entire brigade and their families, not just one person. Your son would be coming back home, but his brigade would be coming here too so I am asking... What kind of an impact will that and future military movements have on our already overburdened infrastructure?

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Hmmm, you know, maybe we've stumbled onto the solution:

Stryker Brigade and Carrier Task Force as part of the Hawaii National Guard---all the pork, much less population/congestion impact. That's not the way the game is played, though. There is no Hawaii Navy, for starters...

There is no need for a Hawaii Navy, Have you ever heard of the "Coast Guard"? If not here's a link for you....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Coast_Guard

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Auntie, we are talking about an entire brigade and their families, not just one person. Your son would be coming back home, but his brigade would be coming here too so I am asking... What kind of an impact will that and future military movements have on our already overburdened infrastructure?

Keanu, I come back. I stay watching the Earthquake thread. But to to answer fast...I know for a fact the Army is building more housing for their soldiers. Also, The Navy as well as other Military Branches are doing the same to accommodate their men and women.

It is also a known fact that Military families tend to stay within their own boundaries ~ such as Bases where their spouses are stationed. They also are very active and participate in Community affairs to help those in need and are less fortunate.

Many go beyond the call of duty. My son and his unit does not want to destroy the aina. He loves his birth land and respects it. He is an asset to his unit both as a soldier and someone who is born and raised here.

Auntie Lynn

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Keanu, I come back. I stay watching the Earthquake thread. But to to answer fast...I know for a fact the Army is building more housing for their soldiers. Also, The Navy as well as other Military Branches are doing the same to accommodate their men and women.

It is also a known fact that Military families tend to stay within their own boundaries ~ such as Bases where their spouses are stationed. They also are very active and participate in Community affairs to help those in need and are less fortunate.

Many go beyond the call of duty. My son and his unit does not want to destroy the aina. He loves his birth land and respects it. He is an asset to his unit both as a soldier and someone who is born and raised here.

Auntie Lynn

Auntie, I appreciate your son's service and the service of all those past and present that have served this Country. I am not anti-military. My dad was a sailor in the US Navy, and I might have had a career in the military too had I not been asthmatic. I believe your boy, as an Island son, has much love and respect for his homeland. I personally, just worry that a lot of decisions are being made without too much thought to the implications of a bigger Military presence in Hawai'i (especially Oahu). I had the pleasure of meeting Senator Inouye last month. If he had time to talk, I would have loved to ask him some questions.

Anyways, Happy Thanksgiving to you and your ohana, Auntie.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

"Follow the money and the answer will reveal itself".

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

I could be wrong but I thought the Hawaii Stryker Brigade was a conversion of the existing 2nd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division? So isn't that already troops and family there were already stationed on Oahu to begin with? It's just that instead of being light armored, foot soldiers, they now have a medium armored ride to better protect them?

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Auntie, I appreciate your son's service and the service of all those past and present that have served this Country. I am not anti-military. My dad was a sailor in the US Navy, and I might have had a career in the military too had I not been asthmatic. I believe your boy, as an Island son, has much love and respect for his homeland. I personally, just worry that a lot of decisions are being made without too much thought to the implications of a bigger Military presence in Hawai'i (especially Oahu). I had the pleasure of meeting Senator Inouye last month. If he had time to talk, I would have loved to ask him some questions.

Anyways, Happy Thanksgiving to you and your ohana, Auntie.

Thank you Keanu. I appreciate it very much. My son is with me today....he's sitting next to me as I type these words to you.

Happy Thanksgiving 2006!

Hooha!!!

Auntie Lynn and Conrad

[TuNnL]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

First of all, I don't really care about the reasons why or how the Stryker Brigade came to be in Hawaii...

Well, you should. I don’t want the Stryker Brigade here any more than you do, but ignorance is not bliss. If you are going to blame the military for something, blame them for not doing the supplemental EIS. The Stryker Brigade being here has nothing to do with them and everything to do with Sen. Inouye. Period.

...from a purely numbers standpoint ... the military gives the state a lot of money

As opposed to...?

I also think it's sad if we rely on the military as one of our economic pillars.

I don’t. Nothing is stopping another industry from pushing the military to the side. In the mean time, and in lieu of that, we need something to fill the gap.

...check Pua'i Mana'o's reasons again. I agree 100% with him.

Pua‘i Mana‘o is a wahine.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

I could be wrong but I thought the Hawaii Stryker Brigade was a conversion of the existing 2nd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division? So isn't that already troops and family there were already stationed on Oahu to begin with? It's just that instead of being light armored, foot soldiers, they now have a medium armored ride to better protect them?

That's an affirmative. However, a large number of the new Stryker Brigade already are at Schofield (like Auntie Lynn's son Conrad). They are bringing in another 300 or so troops (plus their families) to add to the Brigade, though.

I was reading the public testimony given at a meeting for the Draft EIS that happened a couple of years ago (held on private property and that resulted in several kupuna being busted for carrying signs outside the meetingplace), and mind you, this was before Rummy was so swiftly dispatched from his office a couple of weeks ago, but at that time (and I had totally forgotten about this), the Pentagon strategy was to close down large bases in the US and instead have smaller, more nimble forces stationed in key points around the world ("forward operating bases"). So if Rummy's forward troop plan is still in place (where personnel and equipment are no more than 96 hours away from being fully deployed if necessary), more than likely the Stryker Brigade might be trained in Hawai'i, but they would probably be stationed in Okinawa or somewhere in Asia, to be nearer to the hotspots. What this means economically for the small businesses in say, Wahiawa, is maybe a shortterm increase in business, but in the long run if the Stryker group moves offshore, it would probably mean a lot of little businesses going under. Besides, military people will shop at stores on base to avoid paying sales tax, so that means the State loses out on some income too.

If you have the time, you should take a gander at the transcript of the public testimony (everyone raised concerns about the draft ranging from cultural and environmental issues, to mitigation of damage, to the potential increase in range fires, to the long term economics of establishing the Stryker unit in Hawai'i). Some of the speakers may have been a little shaky in their command of the English language, but man, you could feel the mana that emanated from their words.

Miulang

[808shooter]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Aloha 808 shooter. First of all, I don't really care about the reasons why or how the Stryker Brigade came to be in Hawaii, I'm just against it due to an inherent mistrust of the military. (I've also seen firsthand how the US military operates in countries like Japan)...

Ok. It is the military's past conduct that is really the heart of your objections. We can't take back the past but we can change the future. The military will never go completely away in Hawaii so we might as well try to change their behavior in a positive way.

The military of today seems to be a lot more open to culturally sensitive issues. Remember this isn't a political organization or private sector organization. The military's mission is to preserve the peace by being the dominant military force on earth. Not to win popularity contests.

Up until recently, there was no emphasis on dealing with local social issues. A good example was of the military's relations with the Japanese and how the military is trying to adapt to socially accepted protocols in their host countries.

Here is a great article about the importance of an apology in Japan and how the military has changed it stance from making excuses and denying everything to just accepting responsibility and facing up to their shortcomings.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...6/ai_n16041886

along with the damage it will do to our 'aina and Hawaiian cultural heritage. (Doesn't the military already use enough Hawaiian land?).

I'm not totally up to speed on how the Stryker brigade will hurt the land or the Hawaiian culture. I would say that Hawaiian culture is not something that is static. Hawaiian culture will be much stronger by taking outside influences, incorporating them and making them part of what is Hawaiian. It is how our US popular culture has stayed so vibrant and dominant. I'm not an expert but a look at how hula has changed is a good example.

If you are just don't like haole military guys, I would say that most of the military folks that are stationed here are good people. I think the very few bad ones who get drunk, act stupid and have no respect are the ones that give the military a bad image. But if you look at these boys, they aren't bad, they are just immature. Right out of high school, in Hawaiian paradise, they don't know how to act. The military is so regimented that when they have a chance to blow off steam, not everyone has the self discipline it takes to be a respectful adult.

But I'm not really sure what you meant by "hurt the culture" so I'll wait for your clarification.

Secondly, from a purely numbers standpoint, sure the military gives the state a lot of money, but to me there are, many more valuable things than money here in Hawaii 'nei, the 'aina and Hawaiian culture being at the top of my list.

Yup the military does give our economy a big boost. I am a pretty patriotic guy and am thankful for our military. They protect our way of life. If you could be specific on how you think the military hurts our land and culture, it's help me understand your objections.

I'm pretty open minded and not trying to win an arguement so if you respond, don't get all huhu and think I'm trying to make.

[808shooter]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

just saw muilang's link to the EIS pdf.

Very interesting. I've read it, made notes and will comment on what I think after you respond in your own words.

I kind of have an idea what you will say but I'd like to hear it so I'm not putting words into your mouth.

Muilang tThanks for the link. The testimonies were very interesting.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Take each issue separately. Kaho'olawe, there's a legal agreement. Sue them for breach of contract. Use that money to hire private entities to complete the cleaning. As for the others, more legal challenges. It got Kaho'olawe back, didn't it? But at some point, you need to accept certain things such as Pearl Harbor being in the military's possession, not unless your goals are to completely evict them out of the state. But if that is the case, refer back to my previous post, you are merely putting the state more and more on just tourism.

How did Kaho'olawe get returned by the Navy, anyway? Let's review:

• In May of 1941, Kaho`olawe Ranch signed a sublease for a portion of the island with the U.S. Navy for $1.00 a year up to 1952 when the Ranch's lease expired.
• Seven months later, on the day following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor (December 8, 1941), the Territory of Hawaii was placed under martial law. The military took over the entire island, and ranching operations ended. Ship-to-shore bombardment of the island commenced in 1941 and intensified starting on October 21, 1943, when the USS Pennsylvanin conducted rehearsals for the Gilbert Islands invasion. In preparation for additional landings across the Pacific, the Navy ran ship-to-shore fire control training operations at Kaho`olawe.
• From 1942-1943, American submarine commanders tested torpedoes by firing them at the shoreline cliffs at Kanapou. Additional torpedoes were test fired from 1943 to the 1960's. Under Executive Order 10436 (signed on February 20, 1953), President Dwight D. Eisenhower reserved the island for the use of the United States for naval purposes, except for 23.3 acres on the southern end previously reserved for lighthouse purposes. The Order directed the Navy to eradicate, or reduce to less than 200, all cloven-hooved animals; to allow the Territory of Hawaii to initiate soil and reforestation studies; and when the island was no longer needed for naval purposes and without cost to the Territory of Hawaii, to render the island reasonably safe for human habitation.
• During the Korean War era, weapons usage shifted from naval projectiles to air-dropped, general purpose bombs. Targets and mock airfields were built on-island for practice air attacks and strafing runs. The Statehood Admission Act of 1959 recognized the Territory of Hawaii as the 50th state of the United States. Operation Sailor Hat was an underwater and surface high-explosive test program conducted in 1965 by the U.S. Navy Bureau of Ships (BuShips) under the sponsorship of the Defense Atomic Support Agency (DASA). This program consisted of two series of underwater explosions, three surface explosions at San Clemente Island, California, and three surface explosions at Kaho`olawe Island, respectively. The three 500-ton Trinitrotoluene (TNT) charges were constructed on the beach above the water line on the southwest coast of Kaho`olawe. The crater resulting from the first detonation was subsequently back filled and is no longer visible. The second and third detonations were conducted at the same site; the result is the present "Sailor's Hat" crater. Sailor's Hat crater has formed an aquatic ecosystem which has become habitat for two endemic species of shrimp: Halocaridina rubra and Metabataeus lohena.
• By 1967, Kaho`olawe was a testing and training range for the air war over Vietnam. The need for protection from North Vietnamese surface-to-air missiles led to the construction of surface-to-air targets and target airfields on the island. The entire island was used as a weapons range with no restrictions on target locations.
• By the late 1960's, additional portions of the island were equipped with various types of targets for both ships and aircraft. However, the accidental dropping of bombs on Maui, coupled with numerous complaints of noise from the live fire activities, led the Navy to re-evaluate the on-island target placements. This lead to the designation of the Naval Gun Fire Range on the northern slope and the relocation of the practice air fields and aerial bombardment targets to the central southern third of the island. The dividing lines between these areas were the troop safety lines which demarcate the impact area, leaving the target zone to include the central one third of the island. These targets varied in size from six foot rock pyramids to mock airfields covering acres.
• In 1976, the members of the Protect Kaho`olawe `Ohana (PKO) filed suit in Federal District Court, Aluli et al. V. Brown (civil suit no. 76-0380), seeking to enjoin the Navy's bombing activities on Kaho`olawe. In 1977, the Federal District Court ordered a partial summary judgment in favor of the Aluli et al., and the Navy was required to conduct an environmental impact statement and supply an inventory of, and protect, the historic sites on the island.
• In 1980, a settlement Consent Decree and Order was reached in the Aluli et al. vs. Brown civil suit. Under the Consent Decree and Order, the Navy agreed to survey and protect historic and cultural sites on the island, clear surface ordnance from 10,000 acres, continue soil conservation and revegetation programs, eradicate the goats from the island, limit ordnance impact training to the central third of the island, and allow monthly PKO accesses to the island. Through those monthly accesses, the PKO has regularly visited the island for religious and cultural purposes, as well as revegetation and conservation programs.
• On March 18, 1981, the entire island was listed on the National Register for Historical Places and designated the Kaho`olawe Archaeological District. The Kaho`olawe Archaeological District contains 544 recorded archaeological/historical sites and over 2,000 features, as well as previously unrecorded features associated with traditional and historic Hawaiian land use, ranching, and military activities.
• In 1990, President George Bush issued a Memorandum to Secretary of Defense, Richard Cheney, which directed the Secretary to discontinue use of Kaho`olawe as a weapons range effective immediately. Section 8118 of Public Law 101-511, enacted by Congress in 1990, established the Kaho`olawe Island Conveyance Commission to recommend terms and conditions for the conveyance of Kaho`olawe from federal jurisdiction to the State of Hawaii. The law prohibited the use of the island for weapons delivery training until after the final Kaho`olawe Island Conveyance Commission report was delivered to Congress. The Commission submitted its final report with findings and recommendations to Congress in March 1993, and dissolved six months later in September 1993.
• During the same period, the Navy in consultation with the State Historic Preservation Office, the Protect Kaho`olawe `Ohana, and the County of Maui met and developed a Cultural Resources Management Plan for the Kaho`olawe Archaeological District. That document was finalized in J5. (Ogden Environmental, 1995)

source: http://kahoolawe.hawaii.gov/history.html

As you can see, it took five decades, the government annexing the land and trumping its own directives, the luxury to train through three wars, accidental bombings on Maui, citizens suing the government and prayer, prayer, prayer to get that island back.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Stryker Brigade

Speaking of pork barrel spending, guess which senior Senator from Hawai'i was featured today, along with another senior Senator from AK, in a New York Times story about pork barrel spending, and who was quoted as saying he intends to maintain the status quo when he becomes the head of the Appropriations Committee in January??? My senator has been outted too, and will be receiving an email from me posthaste.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Stryker, Pohakuloa and Lt. Watada

The DoD recently got approval to proceed with limited expansion of its plans to expand Pohakuloa for training the Hawai'i Stryker brigade.

The issue that always looms large in the background of this controversy is the very presence of the U.S. military in Hawai‘i. For Hawai’ian sovereignty activists, the proposed expansion of the Pohakuloa Training Area is only the latest issue in a long history of U.S. military acquisitions of Hawai’ian lands—going back most notably to the 1875 “Treaty of Reciprocity” that ceded control of Pearl Harbor to the U.S. Navy. The military now controls 5 percent of land in Hawai‘i, 22 percent of O‘ahu (85,000 acres), and 4 percent of the Big Island (110,000 acres). Moreover, the proposed 23,000 acre expansion of the Pohakuloa Training Area is only about a quarter of the projected acquisition for the further development of the PTA.[5]

It's a sad irony that this latest land acquisition is almost the size of Kaho‘olawe (28,766 acres), the “Target Isle” used for bombing practice for nearly 50 years after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The Navy finally officially ceded control of Kaho‘olawe on November 11, 2003, after over two decades of protests by peace and Hawai’ian sovereignty activists. That campaign cost the lives of two Hawai’ian leaders, George Helm and Kimo Mitchell, who were lost at sea in 1977 in an effort to reach the island to protest the Navy’s occupation and bombing of the island. Their deaths became an emotional turning point in the struggle for Hawai’ian rights. Now, just as the Navy finally cedes control of Kaho‘olawe, the Army takes control of a similar-sized piece of land on the sacred slopes of Mauna Kea. It would be the largest military acquisition in Hawai‘i since WWII.

For Hawai’ian sovereignty activists, Hawai‘i is an occupied country, and the lands in question are “stolen lands.” Though most Americans are either blissfully unaware or couldn’t care less, the sovereignty activists appear to have international law on their side. For its part, the United States government has already admitted to the illegal overthrow of the Hawai’ian nation, by issuing a formal apology by joint resolution of Congress in November of 1993 in acknowledgment of the 100th anniversary of the coup that dethroned Queen Lili'uokalani. Although the United States was the first nation to formally recognize the sovereignty of the Hawai’ian nation in 1842, it was the U.S. Navy that provided the force that enabled American business interests to dethrone the Queen in January of 1893. In recent years, experts in international law have called into question the legitimacy of “statehood” and American military occupation of Hawai’ian lands by pointing out that there is no known record of the Hawai’ian Kingdom ever relinquishing its sovereignty.

So in exchange for the return of Kaho'olawe (along with its unexploded ordnances) to the kanaka maoli, the DoD gets more land roughly the size of the island they returned, to now contaminate for generations into the future? How respectful of the land is that?

Miulang