New smoking ban

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

Hawaii...always one step behind California.

Or, Hawaii... doing its own thing no matter what California is up to.

The law needs to be repealed.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

I didn't know that kids are now welcomed in bars? I thought they were for adults who consent to work there or drink there. You said you don't care if businesses fail - how'ed you like to loose your livelyhood? That's very mean to say that, but of course the antis feel the same way - disgusting.

Why can't they at least give us our own totally seperate areas or establishments? Because they want to force me to quit. I'm not going to get lead around by the nose by some anti-smoking punks. I have dignity.

As for finding other things, how about telling a surfer that he can't surf on any beaches on the island except for waterpark wave generators, say it is a safety issue. He should just abandon surfing and do something else because the government says so and he doesn't fit the mold of the " perfect citizen".

"Killing Patrons", come on, I haven't seen one drop dead yet. If their so sensitive to air quality, they better avoid other breathing "death traps" like walking around the traffic jammed streets of Honolulu breathing in all that toxic exhaust.

You know your remarks display the kind of arrogance and ignorance about your position on smoking.

Killing patrons is exactly what establishments that endorse smoking is doing. Smoking is a chronic illness that kills over the long term, not as soon as you light it up. I had to explain that because I have to assume by your remarks that you just don't get it yet.

Kids also don't go into bars. I know that, but here's the explanation for those who just don't get it yet: For a long time smokers didn't limit themselves to bars. Heck some smokers don't even drink! But for those who did smoke in public, most won't smoke around children for those obvious health reasons. Hopefully you are one of those considerate smokers.

But if you do understand that mentality then you must also understand that if smoke can affect the health of children, guess what...(do I have to explain it again?) Okay if it affects children it affects you as well. If you can connect those two thoughts then you have to admit that smoking is bad for everyone including yourself.

If you get it and still desire to smoke then that proves your weakness to smoking OR your arrogance for the health and well being of your fellow citizens.

Those who back the smoking ban aren't the bad guys. But when you start with your retarded name calling of those who back this law, well you my friend will not garner any respect from anyone.

As for my remark on businesses failing for endorsing smoking. Yes I'd love to see businesses like that fail because these owners are making money off of other's demise.

And your ass backwards remark about surfers being banned from surfing except on wave machines is just flippant. I don't have to go into details about why, and if you still don't get it then you really are ignorant about your own remarks.

If you want this law removed then for every reason why it was put in place you must disprove them.

Find all the health reasons why it was enacted, you must find all those studies that disprove them and find any expert that will back them up.

GOOD LUCK! In the meantime quit your whining and start researching before that mouth of yours puts you into that corner you can't escape from.

So far I've seen no reasonable excuse for removing this law and your remarks aren't helping your cause.

Geez! I'm giving you ideas! Someone please stop me!

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

So a (ahem) "haole" person should expect attacks when in Waikiki? That's a pretty strange presumption.

"Haole" meaning tourist who is walking alone in a place (Waikiki) where some locals will take advantage of such a situation. And that's why I put the term in quotes, Dick.

Miulang

[Bard]

Re: New smoking ban

That's a very interesting paper, Miulang. Thanks for posting it. Though honestly Hawai`i comes out looking not too bad compared to, say, Orlando

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

You know your remarks display the kind of arrogance and ignorance about your position on smoking.

Killing patrons is exactly what establishments that endorse smoking is doing. Smoking is a chronic illness that kills over the long term, not as soon as you light it up. I had to explain that because I have to assume by your remarks that you just don't get it yet.

Kids also don't go into bars. I know that, but here's the explanation for those who just don't get it yet: For a long time smokers didn't limit themselves to bars. Heck some smokers don't even drink! But for those who did smoke in public, most won't smoke around children for those obvious health reasons. Hopefully you are one of those considerate smokers.

But if you do understand that mentality then you must also understand that if smoke can affect the health of children, guess what...(do I have to explain it again?) Okay if it affects children it affects you as well. If you can connect those two thoughts then you have to admit that smoking is bad for everyone including yourself.

If you get it and still desire to smoke then that proves your weakness to smoking OR your arrogance for the health and well being of your fellow citizens.

Those who back the smoking ban aren't the bad guys. But when you start with your retarded name calling of those who back this law, well you my friend will not garner any respect from anyone.

As for my remark on businesses failing for endorsing smoking. Yes I'd love to see businesses like that fail because these owners are making money off of other's demise.

And your ass backwards remark about surfers being banned from surfing except on wave machines is just flippant. I don't have to go into details about why, and if you still don't get it then you really are ignorant about your own remarks.

If you want this law removed then for every reason why it was put in place you must disprove them.

Find all the health reasons why it was enacted, you must find all those studies that disprove them and find any expert that will back them up.

GOOD LUCK! In the meantime quit your whining and start researching before that mouth of yours puts you into that corner you can't escape from.

So far I've seen no reasonable excuse for removing this law and your remarks aren't helping your cause.

Geez! I'm giving you ideas! Someone please stop me!

For years I attempted to be considerate but the braking point has been reached. The antis just don't stop. You express that you think I'm whining, noooooooo, we have a plan for action. I'm not some government goon's b***h. I have a brain and am going to use it. In 1993 the antis claimed that 3000 non-smoking people were dying every year from second hand smoke. In 1998, a federal judge shot this down, because the study was " biased" and "unscientific". The antis still use this figure and others, the truth is never an obstacle for the antis.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: New smoking ban

"Haole" meaning tourist who is walking alone in a place (Waikiki) where some locals will take advantage of such a situation. And that's why I put the term in quotes, Dick.

Miulang

Miulang, a haole isn't a tourist. Use the right word, please: malihini.

[hawaiifiveoh]

Re: New smoking ban

Or, Hawaii... doing its own thing no matter what California is up to.

Haha, this is very much true!

[tutusue]

Re: New smoking ban

All of my immediate family smoked. I was also married to a smoker. My kids and I never smoked! None of my family could answer the following question in a way that made any sense to me: "What, exactly, is so special about smoking that made you try it and like it?". IOW, "Why do you smoke?"! Both of my parents thought about it and responded, "I don't know.". My brother, who was/is a closet smoker, gave me one of his usual expletives. I remember him puking his guts out when he first tried smoking. What would make someone go back for more? I do understand it's an addiction and that's why people continue but one isn't born with that addiction.

I remember asking a classmate of mine the same question when we were in high school. His answer, "Because the smoke feels so good going down.". He died in his 40s.

So, with good intent, I ask all of you smokers the same question...
What, exactly, is it about smoking that made you try it and like it?

BTW, health issues aside, there have been some really good arguments in this thread, both pro and con, about the ban.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

"Haole" meaning tourist who is walking alone in a place (Waikiki) where some locals will take advantage of such a situation. And that's why I put the term in quotes, Dick.

Citing 20-year old papers doesn't make you correct in using the word that way.

As Pua'i pointed out, it's malihini. Not haole. Learn how to use the language properly if you're going to use it.

And how do you know who did the deed? Police haven't caught anyone in association with that particular crime.

Oh, okay. You're ASSUMING.

And you ignored what I said earlier about Waikiki. Where is this "downtown" Waikiki, as you earlier posted? Hell, where is "uptown" Waikiki?

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

http://www.khon2.com/home/ticker/4727946.html

And you ignored what I said earlier about Waikiki. Where is this "downtown" Waikiki, as you earlier posted? Hell, where is "uptown" Waikiki?

I would consider the area around the Intl Marketplace as downtown Waikiki, as opposed to Ala Moana Shopping Ctr. or Ward Ctr.

And that malihini was haole, I believe.

Miulang

P.S. Here's a more recent study of crime rates against tourists in Honolulu (they don't break out Waikiki from Honolulu, though) v. Las Vegas. While Honolulu currently is one of the safest tourist areas, crimes do happen more frequently to tourists than to locals. The most prevalent crime is theft from rental cars. And here's a KHON report published right after Gregg Pitts, the interim director of the White House Travel Office, was assaulted in Waikiki. KHON interviewed people who lived in Waikiki for their report.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

I would consider the area around the Intl Marketplace as downtown Waikiki, as opposed to Ala Moana Shopping Ctr. or Ward Ctr.

You continue to exhibit your ignorance.

So, according to your sense of Oahu geography... does that make Ala Moana Shopping Center "uptown" Waikiki?

And again. The new law needs to be repealed. We're talking about smoking here, not crime statistics.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: New smoking ban

Where is this "downtown" Waikiki, as you earlier posted? Hell, where is "uptown" Waikiki?

aka Waikiki Uka, which is just mauka of Waikiki Waena, which is smack in da middle of between Uka and...(know you're waiting for it) Waikiki Kai.

And one tells the difference between each moku by the ABC store on the corner.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

And again. The new law needs to be repealed. We're talking about smoking here, not crime statistics.

T'warnt me who brought up crime in Waikiki...'twas Alohakine who said the smoking ban resulted in the guy getting rolled.

[Hope]

Re: New smoking ban

AlohaKine, here is an interesting link for you: http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../11300129.html

The law passed here in Las Vegas, but was so vaguely written, that even Mayor Goodman was wrapped around the axel! So, Las Vegas has issued a temporary restraining order to delay the smoking ban.

You see, Las Vegas is a "different" kind of place. We get 30 million visitors a year, and a lof of them are from Japan. They smoke. Las Vegas is supposed to be a destination of "anything goes", well, almost anything.

The way our law was written, it bans smoking in all restaurants (I have no problem with this, actually) OR places that serve food. Well, the local taverns that serve food...have opted to CLOSE the kitchens, so that their gambling customers can still smoke in the bar.

UH-OH...so, now, the ban would put 80,000 out of work in Las Vegas. All of the kitchen staff, food servers, not to mention the big HIT that the food distributers are going to take! By the way, my brother is a kitchen manager at a local "chain" tavern, who have announced that they are closing 20 of their 30 kitchens...for starters.

Oh, but you can STILL smoke on the casino floor, after all, it's a casino. A large, politically active entity that sways a lot of things in this town. So, the casinos will get MORE business, and the small tavern get.....SCREWED!

I am watching this one with great interest...indeed! You GO, Mayor Oscar Goodman, and have a gin on me

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

T'warnt me who brought up crime in Waikiki...'twas Alohakine who said the smoking ban resulted in the guy getting rolled.

He brought it up, but you made a point of focusing on it... while showing you don't really understand how to use the word haole and that you truly don't know what you're talking about when describing Waikiki.

Yet the bottom line remains: The new no-smoking law on Oahu needs to be repealed.