New smoking ban

[SouthKona]

Re: Roflmao!

He got part 3 straight out of the liquor commission rules prohibitions section, word for word.

Interesting I bet .... give us the link please.

[AlohaKine]

Re: Roflmao!

Interesting I bet .... give us the link please.

OK, go http://www.honolulu.gov/liq/ , then select the following link;

Rules of the Honolulu Liquor Commission (rev. 2005), and scroll down to

3-84-78.04. Sexual Acts and Their Simulations by Persons.

[jdub]

Re: Roflmao!

FYI - KHNL ran a story tonight about bar owners ignoring the ban. Bravo to the owner of Pigskins for standing tall!

[SouthKona]

Re: Roflmao!

OK, go http://www.honolulu.gov/liq/ , then select the following link;
Rules of the Honolulu Liquor Commission (rev. 2005), and scroll down to
3-84-78.04. Sexual Acts and Their Simulations by Persons.

Well, now Sam's off the hook a bit, I had thought before that he'd been doing some research by pacing the streets of Honolulu looking for examples of activites that needed to be defined. Your link has made it obvious that some Liquor Commissioner had already done that research.

[LikaNui]

Re: Roflmao!

FYI - KHNL ran a story tonight about bar owners ignoring the ban. Bravo to the owner of Pigskins for standing tall!

Saw that on KFVE's 9pm newscast. Ditto on your Bravo!
The reporters also said that for the first year there would be no fines. Just warnings.

[AlohaKine]

Re: Roflmao!

FYI - KHNL ran a story tonight about bar owners ignoring the ban. Bravo to the owner of Pigskins for standing tall!

KITV got the best coverage. My fellow activist Jolyn, you're da bomb. I was at Pigskins, supporting and toasting on the KITV 10 pm news. Lance the owner is a real man that stands up for himself and has refused to be the anti's b*tch. I can see that he doesn't like pompous bullies. Now that it has started to surface, it just proves that what I've been expressing for over two months on Hawaiithreads is indeed both factual as well as true. Say tuned, this is not over yet - far from it.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

It seems only satan himself could have more malignant rancor and arrogance toward suffering bar owners and employees as house health commitee chair Josh Green. This jerk refuses to have these peoples' concerns voiced in a hearing or debated on the house floor as per a KITV interview. If he's so correct then what is he afraid of? Who made him dictator. He doesn't give a sh*t if the law he backs destroys Lance Gomes' business and many others - totally sick and cruel.

Let this monster know how wrong he is at repgreen@Capitol.hawaii.gov <repgreen@Capitol.hawaii.gov> , or call 586-9605 to give him a piece of your mind. Please incourage owners and employees to do the same and to contact their representatives and the Governor governor.lingle@hawaii.gov about his cruel hearted and undemocratic actions. People's livelyhoods are at stake, and Josh the dictator cares only about himself and his cronnies.

However this ain't over yet.

[LikaNui]

Re: New smoking ban

Here's a Breaking News item posted on the Advertiser site around 5pm:

Bar owners challenge anti-smoking law in court

"The state's new law banning smoking within 20 feet of bars, restaurants, workplaces and some public areas is now being challenged in state courts.
The Hawai'i Bar Owners Association filed a Circuit Court lawsuit Tuesday contending that the law violates the state constitution because it does not provide "just compensation" to the association's members who are suffering financial harm from having to exclude smokers from their establishments. The suit also said the law is too vague.
"The lawsuit asks for a court order prohibiting the state from enforcing the law and a declaration that the law violates the state constitution."

[GeckoGeek]

Re: New smoking ban

The Hawai'i Bar Owners Association filed a Circuit Court lawsuit Tuesday contending that the law violates the state constitution because it does not provide "just compensation" to the association's members who are suffering financial harm from having to exclude smokers from their establishments. The suit also said the law is too vague.

Just compensation? New legal theory on me. Not sure what they consider "too vague".

[pzarquon]

Re: New smoking ban

The full story with more detail and quotes this morning:

Anti-smoking law challenged

The lawsuit said association members relied heavily on customers who smoke. But after the law was adopted, the number of patrons "dropped off dramatically and (the members') resulting income has been drastically reduced," the suit said... The lawsuit said the law is unconstitutional because it damages the private property of the association members without providing them with compensation. The suit also said the law is invalid because "it does not give a person of ordinary intelligence a reasonable opportunity to know what is prohibited and has not provided explicit standards for the (Department of Health) to apply it to avoid arbitrary and/or discriminatory enforcement." In addition, the suit said attempts to enforce the law against individuals who smoke in bars have not resulted in any arrests. The reason, the suit said, is that police require that a person be in the act of smoking before they issue a citation.

David Shapiro blogs (yet curiously doesn't link his own paper's article):

Smoky bars fight back

It's a curious legal argument that in order to protect the public health, the state should have to compensate businesses that profit from practices injurious to the public health. Government at all levels has acted in recent years to minimize the most dangerous effects of cigarettes and alcohol without having to pay off tobacco companies and distillers — or retailers who sell their products. To the contrary, tobacco companies have been required by legal settlements to finance anti-smoking campaigns, and alcohol producers have paid for efforts to promote responsible drinking.

[LikaNui]

Re: New smoking ban

And now the new lawsuit story is in the Star-Bulletin at this link for you folks to read.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

No sense having a law that isn't being enforced because the Health Dept. doesn't have the bodies to go out or the rules to enforce it!

Before the smoking enforcement rules take effect, they have to go through a small business review board, the governor's office and then public hearings. The process could take several months. Fukino would not estimate how long the smoking rules will take to complete.

"Sometimes we think it should just go right through, and it stops somewhere for whatever reason, that's why I hesitate to give you a date," she said.

The police department can enforce the law now, but the health department said that the Honolulu Police Department has not issued any citations. People who call in complaints would have to stay at the law-breaking bar or restaurant, and fill out a witness report and identify violators.

The Legislature also did not provide any money for staff to enforce the smoking law, so the health department is asking lawmakers for funds to do that.

Miulang

[Lei Liko]

Re: Roflmao!

FYI - KHNL ran a story tonight about bar owners ignoring the ban. Bravo to the owner of Pigskins for standing tall!

On the KHON2 10PM news last night, customers at Panama Hattie's in Aiea also ignored the ban on camera. More power to them!

[AlohaKine]

Re: Roflmao!

On the KHON2 10PM news last night, customers at Panama Hattie's in Aiea also ignored the ban on camera. More power to them!

I'm in the video on the KHON site, standing behind the lawyer in the red shirt. I had to be there for this important moment.

Just as we wanted it to happen, the legistative and legal actions exploded into view, largely catching the antis off guard. Let the battle to save jobs and livelyhoods begin and let private citizens choose for themselves what is right for them on private property.

The suit accurately reflects that the government has partially taken away a portion of the business viablity and property worth without any just compensation. The health director tried to lower the moral of the movent by saying it hasn't worked in other places, but no fight against a ban has as much honest evidence as ours and few laws are as cruel and extremely damaging as this one.

There are already 6 bills out in the legistlature attacking this ban as well, politicians are realising that the Coalition for Tobacco Free Hawaii has openly lied about the business impact and continues to do so. The Coalition director said very resently that "business is booming" - She has to be blind and totally shameless. They say down 30% is a tobacco industry "myth", the statements made by over 125 owners show the number to be 32% on average for the 85%+ bars that are taking loses. Another anti-smoking group lie exposed.

Please sign the petition at the bars.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Several legistators have intoduced bills to allow a bar to choose to obtain a "class 15 smoking licence" so they don't have to go out of business. Please let your legistlators know about these bills such as SB1970 and HB1800 that need to be heard in commitee.