What is "Hawaiian" to you?

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Aloha sinjin,

To be an "enrolled member" of the Cheyenne, Arapaho, Sioux, and several other tribes usually requires some degree of "American Indian" ancestry. If a kanaka maoli has children with a member of an "American Indian" tribe, their offspring will be both kanaka maoli and "American Indian."

Cheers,

Jonah K

Aloha Jonah,

As usual I learn something from you. Some fraction of NA ancestry giving one an opportunity and possibly the right to "enrollment' would then apply regardless of the non-Indian component of ancestry I would assume?

[alice]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

This is an interesting subject for me personaly as I am of part Irish and part Indian(onondaga)descent(enrolled),with a part Hawaiian sister in law.To be blunt I think it stinks to claim someone else's ethnicity when it is not your own,it's theft of the lowest kind.To put it in a way most can understand ,how would white people like it if every person who has come into this country in the last few decades tried to claim that they were not only American by nationality but by ethnicity as well.Don't you think it would pee-off ethnic (white)Americans who founded and built this country with centuries of blood, sweat,tears and toil in the soil would find that more than a little bit offensive.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

It's called Hawaiian-Lite, ........... Hawaiian when you wanna be.

I like that term because it kinda says it all in a nutshell...or a beer bottle

I'd like to say however that if a person from one country goes to another and settles down in that country then they are called immigrants. That's why the United States are full of them with the exception of the Native American Indians.

So does that make Hawaiians as immigrants because they came from Tahiti?

Being Hawaiian is a birthright as you said. I'm full-blooded Japanese but I don't dare go visit Japan and tell anyone there that I'm more of a Japanese than they are. Heck I can't even speak the language. I'm also not an immigrant because I was born and raised in Hawaii after statehood.

But if the whole notion of Hawaii's acceptance into the US was wrong to begin with then does that make my grandparents who immigrated here before annexation immigrants to the kingdom of Hawaii and does that therefore make my legal citizenship and all Sansei Japanese fall under the kingdom of Hawaii?

And getting back OT...It's important to define what is and what isn't Hawaiian because if reparations become apparent, the powers that be will have to decide how to cut that pie so no Hawaiian or Hawaiian lite will be left with nothing.

If it's by ethnicity, that pie piece will be very small to each and every Hawaiian and there's gonna be a lot of Kanaka Maoli that will hate the part Hawaiian for taking a part of their cut. I think if it is by ethnicity, that pie will be cut in many odd sizes.

If it's by culture, then anyone who was a citizen of the Hawaiian Kingdom before annexation and all of their decendents should receive some sort of reparations. I don't think this idea will fly at all because of the statement I described above regarding the Sansei.

So if by ethnicity, less than a thousand will get the lion's share of any reparations, and the rest get the crumbs. Like I said there's gonna be a lot of pissed off Hawaiian lites out there.

As for stooping low, yeah you're right about that 1st and 2nd generation attitude. That's why I'm even more against my heritage. I can't believe my 2nd generation mother hates virtually all other races. That's pretty bad. I'm not proud to call myself Japanese because of that. I'm proud to be what I am, a resident of Hawaii so I try to live the best ways I can and that's to support the cause of Hawaiian rights to those who deserve it albeit I'm not one of them.

Proud to be American? Well proud to be a citizen of the United States of America. But I can't call myself an American much the same way as I can't call myself a Hawaiian. I'm the grandson of an immigrant. Kinda like a man without a country. I could go to Japan I guess but I don't prefer their culture.

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

This is an interesting subject for me personaly as I am of part Irish and part Indian(onondaga)descent(enrolled),with a part Hawaiian sister in law.To be blunt I think it stinks to claim someone else's ethnicity when it is not your own,it's theft of the lowest kind.To put it in a way most can understand ,how would white people like it if every person who has come into this country in the last few decades tried to claim that they were not only American by nationality but by ethnicity as well.Don't you think it would pee-off ethnic (white)Americans who founded and built this country with centuries of blood, sweat,tears and toil in the soil would find that more than a little bit offensive.

Sweat and tears yes but the blood was often that of others. What makes you think that white Americans are an ethnicity? The only ethnic Americans are Indians. You need to study a bit IMO.

Btw most recent immigrants cling to their ethnicity at least as much as the immigrants of previous decades and centuries if not more.

[Pomai]

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it

As for stooping low, yeah you're right about that 1st and 2nd generation attitude. That's why I'm even more against my heritage. I can't believe my 2nd generation mother hates virtually all other races. That's pretty bad. I'm not proud to call myself Japanese because of that. I'm proud to be what I am, a resident of Hawaii so I try to live the best ways I can and that's to support the cause of Hawaiian rights to those who deserve it albeit I'm not one of them.

Craig, glad you brought that up. Mahalo for your honesty.

What's probably a better question than "What is "Hawaiian" to you?" would be this:

Are your parents racially prejudice? If so, do you feel you've carried on the same attitude?

I'm fortunate to be born and raised both by blood and social environments of many different races. My parents NEVER instilled any thoughts of prejudice in us. They tought us exactly the opposite.

My mother is 1/2 Hawaiian by blood. Both her and dad always taught us to love and respect EVERYONE. That itself is "Hawaiian" enough for me.

[alice]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Blood ,would be the original white slave labor ,brought here before black slaves blood would be the brave men and women who freed this country from it's colonial masters and other wars,blood would also be the countless Americans who gave their lives exploring and settling this country.White's have been in this country for almost the same period as Tahitians have been in Hawaii(at the time of contact)and as is natural they have ceased to have any connection to their ancestral homeland.I don't know a single Indian who would deny this and not just because of our almost exclusive intermarriage.By your standard wouldn't the only Americans be the original Australoid inhabitants who still reside in Tiara del Fuego ?Don't impose your Hawaii specific ethnic sensabilities/prejudices on the rest of the country.Show some respect for the people who made it possible for you to be here.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

But if the whole notion of Hawaii's acceptance into the US was wrong to begin with then does that make my grandparents who immigrated here before annexation immigrants to the kingdom of Hawaii and does that therefore make my legal citizenship and all Sansei Japanese fall under the kingdom of Hawaii?

Craig, I wouldn't say all sansei. Most Japanese immigrants arrived (or their children were born, if that's the criterion you're using) after the overthrow of the Kingdom in 1893, so I don't think they'd ever be considered former citizens of the Kingdom. Citizens of the Republic, and of the Territory, yes, but not the Kingdom.

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Blood ,would be the original white slave labor ,brought here before black slaves...

Indentured servitude is not equal to slavery.

...blood would be the brave men and women who freed this country from it's colonial masters and other wars,blood would also be the countless Americans who gave their lives exploring and settling this country.

More blood was shed by indigenous people than settlers and explorers many times over.

White's have been in this country for almost the same period as Tahitians have been in Hawaii(at the time of contact)...

Polynesians have been in Hawaii for well over 1000yrs. White people have been in the Americas as colonizers only since the late 15th century.

...and as is natural they have ceased to have any connection to their ancestral homeland.

And yet you identify yourself as Irish.

By your standard wouldn't the only Americans be the original Australoid inhabitants who still reside in Tiara del Fuego?

I would not require pure Indian ancestry to claim indigenous status, and that's "Tierra" del Fuego. Btw they are not "Australoid".http://education.yahoo.com/reference...try/Australoid

Don't impose your Hawaii specific ethnic sensabilities/prejudices on the rest of the country.Show some respect for the people who made it possible for you to be here.

You flatter me. I am a mainland haole. My attempt at self-"dehaolefication" is in progress. If I were a native Hawaiian though I would remind you that we were never given a choice in becoming part of the US and if anyone has been disrespected(to put it mildly) it is us.

[alice]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Indentured servitude is not equal to slavery.

Many were forced into servitude in both the south and the Carribean
More blood was shed by indigenous people than settlers and explorers many times over.
What does that have to do with anything at all,they are my people.

Polynesians have been in Hawaii for well over 1000yrs. White people have been in the Americas as colonizers only since the late 15th century.
And hawaiians are descended from both the original polynesians and the later Tahitians ,the same way millions of Americans have both European and Amerindian ancestry.

And yet you identify yourself as Irish.
Always,theres not a finer group in existance or who have suffered more.

I would not require pure Indian ancestry to claim indigenous status, and that's "Tierra" del Fuego. Btw they are not "Australoid".http://education.yahoo.com/reference...try/Australoid


You flatter me. I am a mainland haole. My attempt at self-"dehaolefication" is in progress. If I were a native Hawaiian though I would remind you that we were never given a choice in becoming part of the US and if anyone has been disrespected(to put it mildly) it is us.

Don't flatter yourself ,I assumed, rightly,that you were one of those annoying white "dogooders".
p.s.no need to dewhiten yourself ,anything your people have done wrong they have more than made up for (not all,but more than any other)with all the wonderful "things they've given to the world.I feel sory for you,you impose this self-hatred upon yourself,would you expect your Asian neighbors to hate them selves because of Gengis Kahn,or the fact that as we type back and forth the Chinese are purposely flooding their border teritories with ethnic Chinese in what amounts to a successfull genocide or that Indonesia is doing the same to some of the oldest people in the pacific.

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Don't flatter yourself ,I assumed, rightly,that you were one of those annoying white "dogooders".
p.s.no need to dewhiten yourself ,anything your people have done wrong they have more than made up for (not all,but more than any other)with all the wonderful "things they've given to the world.I feel sory for you,you impose this self-hatred upon yourself,would you expect your Asian neighbors to hate them selves because of Gengis Kahn,or the fact that as we type back and forth the Chinese are purposely flooding their border teritories with ethnic Chinese in what amounts to a successfull genocide or that Indonesia is doing the same to some of the oldest people in the pacific.

My apologies for thinking you mistook me and God forbid I should want to do good or annoy someone as wise and worldly as yourself. In point of fact, I haven't a self-loathing bone in my body. I did not make this world but was born into it. History is what it is but I have no requirement to justify the action of those in the past simply because we share complexion. Furthermore, it is not for you or I to determine that the price paid by indigenous peoples is "made up for" by "wonderful things they've(Europeans) given the world". That's just another rationalization for destroying their cultures. We did it for our benefit not theirs.

The fact that not all evil done in the world is done by the white man is not exactly a revelation to me. How does that absolve "Europeans" for the things they have done?

[Paul]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

I think it's only recently that native type peoples have become infected with these racial notions of who is and who isn't one of them. Long ago, native Americans would under certain circumstances fully accept people of another tribe or even a black or white person into their tribe. In many cases, these people became prominent members of their adopted tribes. You've all seen "Dances with Wolves", although I don't know how factual that story is. There are many documented accounts of similar things occuring even in Hawaii such as the stories of John Young and Issac Davies.

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

I think it's only recently that native type peoples have become infected with these racial notions of who is and who isn't one of them. Long ago, native Americans would under certain circumstances fully accept people of another tribe or even a black or white person into their tribe. In many cases, these people became prominent members of their adopted tribes. You've all seen "Dances with Wolves", although I don't know how factual that story is. There are many documented accounts of similar things occuring even in Hawaii such as the stories of John Young and Issac Davies.

Yes, native people are becoming more "uppity" all the time. Do you suppose the pressure on their ways of life have been increasing with time also?

[alice]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

My apologies for thinking you mistook me and God forbid I should want to do good or annoy someone as wise and worldly as yourself. In point of fact, I haven't a self-loathing bone in my body. I did not make this world but was born into it. History is what it is but I have no requirement to justify the action of those in the past simply because we share complexion. Furthermore, it is not for you or I to determine that the price paid by indigenous peoples is "made up for" by "wonderful things they've(Europeans) given the world". That's just another rationalization for destroying their cultures. We did it for our benefit not theirs.

The fact that not all evil done in the world is done by the white man is not exactly a revelation to me. How does that absolve "Europeans" for the things they have done?

No need to apologise ,and i'm realy not that "worldly"LOL I'm only 22 although I have lived in 3 states LOL.I'm glad to here you hate yourself,for real.Don't be so hard on yourself,I think it's good that you have a conscience. You know I do have a right to an opinion on indigenous people,at least myself,because almost half my genes are indigenous and I happen to like myself.And I never meant anything like Europeans some kind of innocent group or whatever,but they did bring us to the space age and I am happy with my modern life,I'm sorry if you don't get that.
Please,please lets not argue anymore because I don't like it.

[Paul]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Yes, native people are becoming more "uppity" all the time. Do you suppose the pressure on their ways of life have been increasing with time also?

Sure but I never said native people were becoming more "uppity", just more race conscious. Could be because they were betrayed many times by people they had accepted as one of their own.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

I never realized the amount of prejudice my parents (mom) had until I started dating and when I was going to marry a woman who was half Mexican and half Aztec Indian (exceptionally beautiful) my mom was appalled. Well that relationship was never tied. When I eventually married my wife (Hawaiian,Japanese,Korean,Portuguese,German) my mom was still resentful however I pretty much told her to back off.

As for "Hawaiian", this is such a convoluted area because of the "attitude" one needs to be fully immersed into the Hawaiian culture, and even so you'll never be 100% Hawaiian by some.

I believe some Kanaka Maoli feel that simply being born a Hawaiian guarantees them rights afforded by their ancestors that forged their culture despite not being able to speak their ethnic tongue. Yet some Haole were able to immerse themselves into the culture and speak the language fluently.

Yet those very Kanaka Maoli speak fiercely about the overthrow yet offer nothing in return to show their loyalty to the Queen. They still drive Chevy trucks, buy stuff from Walmart, and accept the almighty welfare check from the very government that took their ancestors' lands away from them.

Some feel that welfare check is their right. Well add up those checks and that total is that much less the US government owes them. And if and when reparations become apparent, the bulk of the reimbursement will go to the reigning Hawaiian government and they will decide how those monies and lands will be divided. And I tell you one thing, there's gonna be a lot of pissed off Hawaiians when that realization comes because the individual vision of what was supposed to be, won't be.

This is why the Hawaiian community needs to hammer out and specifiy exactly what is Hawaiian and disperse that notion fairly to all Hawaiians whether they be full-blooded or half breed before reparations can proceed.