What is "Hawaiian" to you?

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Sure but I never said native people were becoming more "uppity", just more race conscious. Could be because they were betrayed many times by people they had accepted as one of their own.

You'll forgive me if I took exception to your characterization of their increased awareness of the threat outsiders pose to maintaining an authentic identity as an "infection". I'm sure you meant infection in the good way like infectious laughter.

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

No need to apologise ,and i'm realy not that "worldly"LOL I'm only 22 although I have lived in 3 states LOL.I'm glad to here you hate yourself,for real.Don't be so hard on yourself,I think it's good that you have a conscience. You know I do have a right to an opinion on indigenous people,at least myself,because almost half my genes are indigenous and I happen to like myself.And I never meant anything like Europeans some kind of innocent group or whatever,but they did bring us to the space age and I am happy with my modern life,I'm sorry if you don't get that.
Please,please lets not argue anymore because I don't like it.

Since you ask nicely, of course. 22 was more than half a life time ago for me and still I am a Philistine compared to so many. But please remember it is not what we don't know that's dangerous, it's what we think we know that we are incorrect about.

[Paul]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

You'll forgive me if I took exception to your characterization of their increased awareness of the threat outsiders pose to maintaining an authentic identity as an "infection". I'm sure you meant infection in the good way like infectuous laughter.

No I meant it in a bad way as in infected by the same kind of racial thinking of the outsiders. Long ago anyone could become Hawaiian. Kamehameha made John Young an Alii but a Kanaka Maoli would never have been accepted into polite white society at the time.

[sinjin]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

No I meant it in a bad way as in infected by the same kind of racial thinking of the outsiders. Long ago anyone could become Hawaiian. Kamehameha made John Young an Alii but a Kanaka Maoli would never have been accepted into polite white society at the time.

If you mean by anyone, anyone who marries the king's niece and shares a wealth of knowledge of warfare with an ambitious king, then I guess you're onto something. Of course your asssertion that he "became" Hawaiian isn't supported. If I lived for 20 years in Japan and was well loved by my Japanese neighbors and friends I'd slowly become Japanese? Would I still look like myself?

Please explain how the "racial thinking" is the "same kind" as the outsiders. I would suggest it's apples to oranges.

[kamuelakea]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

So does that make Hawaiians as immigrants because they came from Tahiti?

Probably. But the facts to me, biased as I might be, still give Hawaiians the edge. Unique physical features in all the world, unique language in all the world and unique culture in all the world established thousands of years in a place more geographically isolated than any human existence in the known universe.
Chew on dat foah a liddle bit.

I'm no expert in this area, I'm no genius but I'm no fool. And I have trouble accepting the theory that the Hawaiian people, language and culture developed in just 2000 years after a family of Tahitians got lost and shipwrecked on Hawaii. That's what the PhDs at UH will have you believe. 2000 years is too short.

One time I was chewing da fat with one Hawaiian friend of mine about Polynesian migration. I pointed out the obivous liguistic ties between all of polynesia. Similarities from SE Asia through Indonesia to New Zealand to Samoa, Tahiti, Marquesas and ultimatey to Hawaii can be seen in a smooth path in that direction.

My friend looked at me and said simply, "you got da couzins right, but you going da wrong direction. Started with Hawaiians and went out da odda direction."

I thought, wow, so simple, but so right. Why not???

I don't have evidence either way. Just saying even if Hawaiians are immigrants, (but maybe not??) they still beat the rest of our immigrant ancestors by thousands of years and established a unique people and culture.

I don't think the implications of the word immigrant apply at all.

[kamuelakea]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

Being Hawaiian is a birthright as you said. I'm full-blooded Japanese but I don't dare go visit Japan and tell anyone there that I'm more of a Japanese than they are. Heck I can't even speak the language. I'm also not an immigrant because I was born and raised in Hawaii after statehood.

I don't know how true this is but I heard many of the Japanese tourists are intrigued by Hawaii's Japanese because to them, Hawaii's Japanese seem more Japanese to them then they see themselves.

Basically Hawaii's "Japanese" has been cryogenically frozen in time as a pass down from the Grandparents who came to Hawaii at the turn of the last century. While culture in Japan changed over time, Hawaii's Japanese merely perpetuated Japanese culture of the early 1900s.

You are not an immigrant to America. You are an American. But some could argue that you are an immigrant to the Nation of Hawaii which never ceased to exist. I know, deep but the argument could be made.

Either way, no mattah. The 80% of Hawaii that has no claim to the Kingdom of Hawaii ain't going anywhere. In fact, they will continue to dominate and control the state. Akaka bill or anything else won't change that.

[kamuelakea]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

As for stooping low, yeah you're right about that 1st and 2nd generation attitude. That's why I'm even more against my heritage. I can't believe my 2nd generation mother hates virtually all other races. That's pretty bad. I'm not proud to call myself Japanese because of that. I'm proud to be what I am, a resident of Hawaii so I try to live the best ways I can and that's to support the cause of Hawaiian rights to those who deserve it albeit I'm not one of them.

You got balls and class to admit this. We all have weaknesses in ourselves and our pasts. I think the people who recognize and admit them are stronger and ultimately will be happier people.

Personally, I support Native Hawaiians. That means 100%. Niihau kine. Milolii kine. Molokai kine. But at 1000 left, extinction is near. So from a practical standpoint, I say throw in the 50% Hawaiians. That does not include me by the way. They get land and independence. BUT NO FRICKEN WELFARE STATE. I say that because I don't want the last Hawaiians to become ghetto blacks waiting on the overpass for the government to come pick them up in a hurricane. Government handouts that create government dependency will kill the last Hawaiians and everything that still is Hawaiian - Guaranz ballbaranz. Hawaiians are too strong, too independent, too productive for eternal welfare. They need access to land and freedom from the Haole Luna (da boss) as well as the Haole Boogieman (da excuse).

Give Hawaiians Niihau, Molokai and Lanai. Restrict fishing 3 miles out. Let um go. Hawaiian-Lites can live on happily ever after on Oahu and Maui.

[kamuelakea]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

This is why the Hawaiian community needs to hammer out and specifiy exactly what is Hawaiian and disperse that notion fairly to all Hawaiians whether they be full-blooded or half breed before reparations can proceed.

Much of this seems to be a "money grab" or a "pride grab" meaning that hundreds of thousands of toe-nail hawaiians (like me) want either cash or at least the ability to wear the stripes of "I'm Hawaiian, you not" on their sleeve.

I'm always amazed at how so many people are so concerned about the extinction of the Nene bird or the thousands of other extinct or near extinct species in Hawaii. Yesterday, Nainoa Thompson was fighting to stop fishing in the NW Hawaiian Islands to protect them. That's all good. There are entire departments at UH dedicated to studying endangered species. There are breeding programs to try to increase threatened populations. All this for animals that live in Hawaii.

But pure Hawaiians down to 1000? Nobody cares, including the toe-nail Hawaiians whose ancestors (like mine) chose to marry up and marry out.

[Stephen]

Reparations

Reparations will never happen. Not on the Mainland, not here in Hawai'i. The government is not about to bankrupt itself paying for the sins of men who walked this earth over 100+ years ago. People need to just move on - shite happens.

[Stephen]

Mixing

Okay. Out on a limb here. Does it really matter if you're Hawaiian anymore than if you're something else? Does it matter if you're Irish or German or Japanese or Iraqi? I'd have to say no. While I do believe it's important to hold onto one's heritage and culture, eventually they're going to blend together. There's not one society/culture/country on this planet that doesn't have things that are extremely beautiful and extremely ugly about them. In today's age of internet technology, travel and closeness of all societies, we're all going to come together. What is so wrong with that?
Ragin Cajun

[jdub]

Re: Mixing

the way i see it, having grown up here and been respectful of, enamored by and, for the most part, accepted by those Native Hawaiians i've encountered, is that it is a simple matter of heredity...

you have Hawaiian blood or you don't...

i identify myself as someone from Hawaii, but certainly not as "Hawaiian"...

this issue invariably degenerates into interpersonal acrimony, whether it be here on HT, on the steps of Iolani Palace or in the US Congress...good luck to anyone seeking or offering answers...it ain't gonna happen anytime soon...go to the beach and relax...

[kamuelakea]

Re: Mixing

Okay. Out on a limb here. Does it really matter if you're Hawaiian anymore than if you're something else? Does it matter if you're Irish or German or Japanese or Iraqi? I'd have to say no.

Your limb just wen crack.

I cordially disagree. Yeah, you might be right, shite happens, every race has its good and bad. Difference is that there is some concern and sadness for a race that was minding its own business for over 2000 years and was just steamrolled by "progress". Was there any way to avoid it? Probably not. But there still is a sadness for what most agree was a beautiful people and beautiful culture and yet are now on the verge of extinction.

Irish, Germans, Japanese are not on the verge of extinction. They have not been economically forced to move away from their motherlands in the numbers that Hawaiians have. They do not live in lands that are totally controlled politically and economically by recent immigrants to their lands. Their language has not been virtually silenced. I could go on and on. You might say, tough luck, and that's your right. Many people feel a little sadness and maybe a little guilt as they succeed in the place where Hawaiians themselves don't seem to be able to. Hawaiians own fault? Sure, ........... some.

It's kind of like the white baby seals everyone flips out over because the hunters bat um over the head to kill them so rich ladies can wear their fur. Why do we kill millions of animals like cows and chickens and fish and eat them, sometimes raw, sometimes alive and yet we have such concern for these few baby seals. Most animals ever to walk the earth are already extinct. So who should give a ripp about one little species of seals? There are plenty of seals in the world.

Its just sad. That's all. And we like the baby seals. They're cute. And they're innocent. Lucky for Hawaii, most of the immigrants were from countries that tended, in general and IMHO, to have a bit more "emotion" for the Hawaiians. Most were from the bottom of their own socioeconomic systems. They tended to be underdogs themselves. The stereotypical American Haole is very matter of fact like yourself. "Hawaiians Extinct?, Oh well, tough luck, time to move on." That way of thinking is actually a great American characteristic and is one of the things I believe that makes American culture so strong and efficient and productive. But it also causes Americans to be seen as rude, cold, calous and pushy. Go live Maui, you'll meet some.

Do you feel a little sadness for the baby seals.
Do you feel some responsibility for the Whales?
How about Native Hawaiians? If not, why the difference?

[Paul]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

If you mean by anyone, anyone who marries the king's niece and shares a wealth of knowledge of warfare with an ambitious king, then I guess you're onto something. Of course your asssertion that he "became" Hawaiian isn't supported. If I lived for 20 years in Japan and was well loved by my Japanese neighbors and friends I'd slowly become Japanese? Would I still look like myself?

Please explain how the "racial thinking" is the "same kind" as the outsiders. I would suggest it's apples to oranges.

Japan is not Hawaii and I include them with the outsiders who think in terms of race. My assertion that John Young became Hawaiian is supported because he became accepted by the Hawaiians as one of their own. Of course his appearance didn't change. In the days before contact, the Hawaiians didn't have any idea of race but became conscious of it after exposure to Haoles.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

it's okay if you're any of those races that came to a melting pot like America and assimilated into it's way of life (notice I never said "culture"). BUT it's another to have the Germans come into the United States of America and proclaim that from this day forward you will be called German and speak the language eat their food and wear their clothing.

The Hawaiians, like good hosts accepted their guests, they just never believed that the United States would never leave and take their homes as their own.

You just can't go forward and bury this injustice. If someone broke into your home and said, "Tough dis is my home now braddah...go find someplace else to live" would you just accept that or would you beat the living crap outta that buggah for breaking into your home? The problem is that the United States of America is bigger and stronger than one Hawaiian crying "foul". But united, Hawaiians can win.

To go forward and not fight for what's right is basically giving in and I don't think the fire in the hearts of all Hawaiians have been quenched just yet.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

The Hawaiians, like good hosts accepted their guests, they just never believed that the United States would never leave and take their homes as their own.

Yeah, kinda like my Blackfeet ancestors (actually, they weren't quite so accommodating, and they often fought as if their lives and cultures depended upon it; I suspect they knew these white ghosts were planning to stay.)