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  • Hate Crime?

    http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...702240334/1001

    One can only imagine what would happen if it was another Hawaiian who hit their car. Shameful!!

  • #2
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by Keanu View Post
    http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...702240334/1001

    One can only imagine what would happen if it was another Hawaiian who hit their car. Shameful!!
    Jonathan Osorio, chairman of the UH Kamakakuokalani Center for Hawaiian Studies, said that based on what he was told, he does not believe a hate crime was committed.

    "It doesn't matter if their ethnicities are different. It doesn't matter that we're dealing with Hawaiians and haoles here," Osorio said.

    He said he is troubled by suggestions that the incident may have been a hate crime.

    "It worries me when people start calling something like this a hate crime because it starts to ramp up the public temperature over race in Hawai'i, and I don't think we need that," he said.

    He said the incident occurred because of a fender bender. "Leave the rest of us out of it," Osorio said.
    The "Hawaiian" studies teacher IMO, is wrong. It is a hate crime and should be treated as such. Public outcry should make it known that nothing like this should occur in the land of "aloha". Osorio wouldn't have made that statement if he didn't think it was a hate crime. As noted his statement is based on hear say ,not on eyewitness accounts(somebody must have seen it).....Auwe!
    Last edited by alohabear; February 24, 2007, 09:13 AM.
    Listen to KEITH AND THE GIRLsigpic

    Stupid people come in all flavors-buzz1941
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    • #3
      Re: Hate Crime?

      Shameful? Sure. But for simple stupidity, and not for "hate crime." Sheesh.

      We've had more than a few recent examples of stupid traffic accidents becoming fatal confrontations, and the races of the attackers and victims have been all over the map. Had the guy been fat, the attacker would've singled that out. Had he been Vietnamese, same thing. Or bald. Or bearded. Whatever. People sparked into that kind of rage have issues with people, not races.

      The more I read about "hate crimes" and related prosecution, the more I think it's a stupid idea. Which, of course, further estranges me from my liberal, left-leaning friends.

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      • #4
        Re: Hate Crime?

        Originally posted by alohabear View Post
        The "Hawaiian" studies teacher IMO, is wrong. It is a hate crime and should be treated as such. Public outcry should make it known that nothing llike this should occur in the land of "aloha". Osorio wouldn't have made that statement if he didn't think it was a hate crime......Auwe!
        I sort of disagree this is a hate crime. Possible but unlikely. It's unlikely these two (father and son) were looking for a "reason" (like an accident) to beat down "haoles". This situation could have easily been "you f***ing jap" or "you f***ing flip" or plainly "you f***ing @ssh@le".

        The father and son suspects were plainly enraged to the point of beating these people senseless, regardless of what they looked like. Obviously, if the kid walked straight up the car and kicked it, then hit the WOMAN. All this points to the fact they BOTH need anger management (and a good time in jail to think about it).

        Sure it's possible the "haole" driver might have been a reckless and inconsiderate driver; something we ALL see every single day, by ALL RACES. I do. To incriminate yourself by beating someone up for it is foolish.

        The scary thing is, with the insane traffic congestion on Oahu, this incident could happen to ANYONE, ANYWHERE, including you and I.

        At the LEAST, I hope they revoke the perpetrator's driver license. At the LEAST. This is just as bad as injuring someone from a DUI. People like this SHOULD NOT DRIVE. Who knows, maybe he was high on Ice? They'll probably do a blood test on everyone involved.
        sigpic The Tasty Island

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        • #5
          Re: Hate Crime?

          The dudes didn't go out looking for any ol poor caucasian to beat up. It was more of a reactive rage thing. So it definitely wasn't a hate crime.
          And of course the story is one sided. You don't know what REALLY happened. The haole could have been running his mouth.
          edited

          quote:
          "Dawn Dussell then exited the car, confronted the teen and attempted to push him away from the Dodge and her husband."

          how does someone "attempt" to push ? Sounds like the first blow.
          Last edited by PoiBoy; February 24, 2007, 10:12 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Hate Crime?

            The Star Bulletin story has revealing details about the Paakaula family history of violence. Apparently, the 16-year old was beaten so severely as a child that at least once his father was arrested and convicted of abuse to a family member.

            I have to say I lean towards pz's general attitude towards hate crimes.

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            • #7
              Re: Hate Crime?

              I think it was a case of road rage, but I also think the wife of the guy exacerbated the problem by coming to her husband's defense and confronting the driver. Knowing that she had a 3-year-old child sitting in the back seat witnessing all of this, why didn't she think of the safety of her kid first and try to de-escalate the situation? If they had a cell phone, couldn't they just have dialed 911 and gotten the cops out there to defuse the situation instead? Better to get your car doors kicked in than to get your face beaten into a pulp, as the victims discovered.

              The best way to get beaten or shot at in a case of road rage is to try to out testosterone the person who's swearing at you. A hate crime, IMO, is when the crime is committed with malice and forethought. This particular incident was caused because of a fateful encounter, not willful planning.

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Re: Hate Crime?

                Sounds like the Paakaula father wasn't involved in the initial scuffle. When a father sees his family involved in a fight his natural reactions are to go and defend his family.

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                • #9
                  Re: Hate Crime?

                  Originally posted by glossyp View Post
                  The Star Bulletin story has revealing details about the Paakaula family history of violence. Apparently, the 16-year old was beaten so severely as a child that at least once his father was arrested and convicted of abuse to a family member.[...]
                  The boy's mother told police her husband beat her son for 15 minutes, first with a belt and then with his fists. She said he stopped only after she called her husband's father to intervene, according to the police report.
                  [...]
                  Paakaula pleaded guilty to abuse of a family member, a misdemeanor, Aug. 26, 2002, and was sentenced to 14 days in prison, to be served on seven consecutive weekends, and two years' probation. On May 27, 2003, Paakaula requested and was granted early release from probation.
                  Oh man..oh man...oh man...
                  Children learn what they live.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Hate Crime?

                    And how traumatized will the victims' 3-year-old son be if he witnessed the beating of his parents?

                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                    • #11
                      Re: Hate Crime?

                      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                      I also think the wife of the guy exacerbated the problem by coming to her husband's defense
                      Yes, it's their fault they got beat up. Maybe the husband should go back to Iraq where it's safer.

                      The Advertiser story leaves many details out. The original Star-Bulletin story that broke open this incident

                      http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/22/news/story10.html

                      indicates that the "local" son was the one who initially went into crazed assault mode but his mother, instead of controlling her son, went berserk when the Army guy's wife tried to prevent her husband from being killed. I wonder why she wasn't charged as well as her son and husband. She didn't restrain him until the victims were bleeding and unconscious.

                      "Hate" crime? I dunno. There's certainly a lot of bottled-up rage there, and it only needs an excuse to set it off. And it seems that it was unleashed only because the other people were white. Reminds me a bit of the Mainland policeman who was beaten up on North Shore.

                      Another question is why people at the scene didn't stop it. It's not that easy to calm down people who are crazed and want to kill.

                      I wonder what it's like to be the Paakaula's neighbors?
                      Burl Burlingame
                      "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
                      honoluluagonizer.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: Hate Crime?

                        Please. Hate crime legislation is some of the stupidest lawmaking I've ever heard of and it fries my ham that the phrase even exists in the lexicon. What happened is terrible, but it has nothing to do with "hate crime," and even if it did, what's the difference?
                        But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                        GrouchyTeacher.com

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                        • #13
                          Re: Hate Crime?

                          This subject was on the local news on Wed. night, iirc. Can't remember which channel. What caused me to pay attention to it was hearing the family in the SUV was backing in to the parking space and one of their side mirrors clipped the perpetrator's car. That reminded me of a current HT thread! I don't remember the racial slur being reported so, based on my reply in that thread, I wondered if my random observations held true in this case...esp. since my attempt at backing in would probably produce the same result!

                          But, yeah, what Keanu mentioned in post #1. It doesn't appear to be a text book case of a hate crime but I have to wonder if race added fuel to the fire. I hope the Paakaula family receives help with anger management before someone is killed.

                          A few months ago I arrive at a red light (Bishop and King) while a road rage incident was in progress. I don't know what instigated it but 2 cars were stopped, one in front of the other, in a middle lane on King St., just past the intersection. A local man from the front car was standing next to the back car, pounding on the driver's side window while screaming. I couldn't see who was in the drivers seat but s/he did not roll down the window! A number of people on the sidewalk were watching, some with cell phones to their ears. The light changed and I was on my way so I have no idea what happened after that.

                          Scary stuff.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Hate Crime?

                            What if the victims were two HUGE Samoans? I don't think they would have been THAT stupid to attack them. I think because of "who" the victims were the Paakaulas knew they could mess them up and walk away from it. Had it been two other people beefer and BIGGER they would have not beaten them.
                            Listen to KEITH AND THE GIRLsigpic

                            Stupid people come in all flavors-buzz1941
                            Flickr

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                            • #15
                              Re: Hate Crime?

                              Originally posted by alohabear View Post
                              What if the victims were two HUGE Samoans? I don't think they would have been THAT stupid to attack them. I think because of "who" the victims were the Paakaulas knew they could mess them up and walk away from it. Had it been two other people beefer and BIGGER they would have not beaten them.
                              It was a 16 year old kid fighting a grown man(a soldier too).

                              The Paakaula father came in after the scuffle had started. The way I see it...he came to defend his family. I doubt that the Paakaula father cared whether it was a haole or a Samoan.


                              What some people dont realise is that sometimes the guy laying on the floor is the same guy who started the fight.

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