Can't they just leave us alone?

[LikaNui]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Tim, please stop comparing Hawaiians to Hitler. (...) Genealogy and educating the future generations of Hawaiians about Hawaiian ways of life, history, language and such is not wrong or nazi like in any way. (...) Now I agree that KS should let in children who NEED it but your "Hawaiians are like Hilter" stuff has got to stop.

I'm curious. I re-read Tim's post several times, and the only Hitler-ish mention he made was "Jews got the shaft in WWII." For the life of me I can't figure out how anyone can twist that into your comment that he's "comparing Hawaiians to Hitler."
Not taking any sides here. I'm just curious what the explanation might be, or if he made that claim in some other thread that you could refer us to, or else why his simple comment was so grossly twisted.

[Lei K]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I'm curious. I re-read Tim's post several times, and the only Hitler-ish mention he made was "Jews got the shaft in WWII." For the life of me I can't figure out how anyone can twist that into your comment that he's "comparing Hawaiians to Hitler."
Not taking any sides here. I'm just curious what the explanation might be, or if he made that claim in some other thread that you could refer us to, or else why his simple comment was so grossly twisted.

It's not just this post, eh, too much to dig up. He accuses Hawaiians of being racially exclusive a lot and makes comparisons to Hitler's ideals on racial exclusivity/purity.

It's this part of his post that got my mind thinking of his past posts...

"The point is that when we choose pedigree or lineage, with an eye toward exclusivity based upon sameness, as a decision making criteria within our cosmopolitan world, then we trod down Hitler's slippery slope."

I feel that his statement above is towards KS and Hawaiian preference. I don't think Hitler and Hawaiians have anything in common. Hawaiians (on the most part) are mixed racially and far from being racial purists or exclusive when it comes to who we love/marry/make keiki with/share our culture with.

Kala mai in advance if I'm wrong for thinking that's where Tim was going with that comment.

[TuNnL]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

...the only Hitler-ish mention he made was "Jews got the shaft in WWII." For the life of me I can't figure out how anyone can twist that into your comment that he's "comparing Hawaiians to Hitler."

I think LeiKaina was also putting the comment you quoted in the context that Tim preceded it with:

When we choose pedigree or lineage, with an eye toward exclusivity based upon sameness, as a decision making criteria within our cosmopolitan world, then we trod down Hitler's slippery slope.

By this, it appears Tim is comparing KSBE’s admission policy to Hitler’s.

And I agree that it was very pilau of him to do so.

[Lei K]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I think LeiKaina was also putting the comment you quoted in the context that Tim preceded it with...

Exactly my mana'o, akamai! *hugs*

Glad you got what I was getting at.

[Ms_Aloha_Nui]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Thank you, Lei...this one is so close to my heart - as it is to many others....I prefer sometimes not to respond for fear that my words will come out wrong.....mahalo for your words.....

[Lei K]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I prefer sometimes not to respond for fear that my words will come out wrong.....mahalo for your words.....

I relate. What I type/how it comes across and my mana'o sometimes don't match.

[LikaNui]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

It's this part of his post that got my mind thinking of his past posts... "The point is that when we choose pedigree or lineage, with an eye toward exclusivity based upon sameness, as a decision making criteria within our cosmopolitan world, then we trod down Hitler's slippery slope."

Ah. I had re-read his post a couple of times but somehow completely missed that one. My bad. Almost 15 straight hours of work yesterday must've caused my brain fut.
Sorry.
Carry on.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Kamehameha Schools could easily get out of their quagmire.

Set X = % of orphaned and indigent children of all races, y= Hawaiian ethnic children. If Y>X, then her will is answered fully and faithfully. Y>50% numerically defines 'preference' for Hawaiian children, X means orphans and indigents, which is the first category which she addressed in her will. As the will is written anyway, the priority for Hawaiian children is a dependent clause, qualifying the root, which is socio-economic in nature, not ethnic.

As an aside to being fair, Maui families wouldn't be so insulted that their children didn't "qualify" for a seat at the prestigious Kamehameha Schools.

[alohabear]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Thanks for asking...I am definitely HAWAIIAN! One side is Keaunui, other side is Ha'o.

Just asking...who is "they"? I would think it would be the media.....if "they" don't report it and no one knows about it then no one would care.

[timkona]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

First of all, I love Adobo AND Cinco De Mayo, which is not celebrated in Mexico.

Hawaiians aren't fond of blood quantum rules (blah) and racial purity. Genealogy and educating the future generations of Hawaiians about Hawaiian ways of life, history, language and such is not wrong

Should seem clear to anybody, through KS admissions policy, that racial purity is an issue.

Is it possible to educate future generations of children about Hawaiian life/history/language/culture without racial exclusivity? It is not wrong to teach such things. It is wrong to exclude students based on pedigree.

To perceive one's pedigree with such highminded loyalty, to the point of excluding others, is just about the height of egomania.

I thought Hawaiians frowned upon egomania. And I thought somebody would comment on my HulaJesus thing.

[greentara]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I thought Hawaiians frowned upon egomania. And I thought somebody would comment on my HulaJesus thing.

LOL I read your comment before I left for work this am and did not have time to respond. With all due respect Mr. Tim to my knowledge was it not the Christian Missionaries that forced Hula to go "underground" for many many years. During the 19th century, the hula almost vanished because the missionaries considered it vile and heathen. You mentioned that your daughter dances Hula, sure hope it's not Kahiko because it IS a ritual dance.

As far as the KS goes it was developed to preserve HI culture and why not make sure that as many Hawaiian children as possible attend the school. After the vicious way the missionaries tried to eliminate all of the ancient traditions of their culture Hawaiians definitely deserve a break and what a boring world this would be with a monotone culture. If people object to the admissions policy why not send your children to another school ~ to pretend that we are all one people is a crock because we are NOT all one people some people have been and will continue to be treated as second class citizens because of their racial background. It’s always very comfortable for the people in power to claim that we are all one. If we are “one” that “one” is a pyramid shape with the power flowing from the top downward.

[timkona]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Well that brings up a whole nother issue with the KS and their religious undertones. I guess everything was bad about the missionaries, except their god.

For grievances of the past, is there any time limit to when present or future entitlement should expire? Or should we just assume that Hawaiians (among others) will never be able to make it on their own? I don't know any Hawaiians who can't make it on their own, so that's why I'm curious.

So what would be the problem with my daughter learning Hula?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I guess everything was bad about the missionaries, except their god.

You know me, Tim - I'd include that aspect as well (but I wouldn't force my view of that on anyone else.)

For grievances of the past, is there any time limit to when present or future entitlement should expire?

You have just hit the proverbial nail here. I would answer "yes," though I am not qualified to say when in the circumstances we often discuss here. But yes, we should be working toward a day of real equality in all circumstances, so that there is no longer a need for the equivalent of a golf handicap in socio-economic and educational situations.
I think I understand your opinion, however, that continuing such programs in the present day further delays us from reaching that sought-after equality, rather than bringing it closer.

So what would be the problem with my daughter learning Hula?

You won't hear one from me. I hope to have the opportunity to see her dance someday.

[Random]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Can't they just leave the Hawaiians alone???????

Nope. It's in their nature, much like scorpions.

[TuNnL]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I don't know any Hawaiians who can't make it on their own, so that's why I'm curious.

As a so-called expert in real estate, Tim, perhaps you should get out more... and meet new people. Visit the beaches and homeless shelters. Our state prison system. The doctor’s office. Official statistics say you will find a disproportionate amount of native Hawaiians in these places.