Can't they just leave us alone?

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

As a so-called expert in real estate, Tim, perhaps you should get out more... and meet new people. Visit the beaches and homeless shelters. Our state prison system. The doctor’s office. Official statistics say you will find a disproportionate amount of native Hawaiians in these places.

Perhaps KS should also visit these places. Set up recruiting desks at clinics, Waimanalo Beach, IHS, the visitor area at OCCC.

Sorry, but any system that engages in exclusionary practices based on race, ethnicity, gender, etc, is just plainass wrong in my book.

Pride in one's heritage, ancestry, and history is a wonderful thing. When it morphs into superiority, arrogance, and exclusivity its just ugly. And more than a little bit sad.

[joshuatree]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Perhaps KS should also visit these places. Set up recruiting desks at clinics, Waimanalo Beach, IHS, the visitor area at OCCC.

Sorry, but any system that engages in exclusionary practices based on race, ethnicity, gender, etc, is just plainass wrong in my book.

Pride in one's heritage, ancestry, and history is a wonderful thing. When it morphs into superiority, arrogance, and exclusivity its just ugly. And more than a little bit sad.

Would the issue be more or less resolved if X amount of slots were provided to non-Hawaiians and these applicants had to pay their own tuition? I attended Catholic school when I was younger and they charged my folks a non-Catholic tuition since I wasn't Catholic.

[greentara]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

So what would be the problem with my daughter learning Hula?

I was referring to you comment in another thread stating:


I really love the irony involved. KS prays to a Christian God. And dances to honor a Hawaiian Deity (Pele). Idolaters.

Absolutely nothing wrong with you daughter learning Hula. What I was referring to is the above post in another thread...all little ones look totally cute doing Hula and I'm sure your daughter is an adorable little girl. Hula is an excellent way to gain confidence and grace, but to some people it's more than just a dance.

[anapuni808]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

First of all, I love Adobo AND Cinco De Mayo, which is not celebrated in Mexico.

Tim, you are not entirely correct in your statement. You really should check your facts before you start spouting off:

The holiday of Cinco De Mayo, The 5th Of May, commemorates the victory of the Mexican militia over the French army at The Battle Of Puebla in 1862. It is primarily a regional holiday celebrated in the Mexican state capital city of Puebla and throughout the state of Puebla, with some limited recognition in other parts of Mexico, and especially in U.S. cities with a significant Mexican population. It is not, as many people think, Mexico's Independence Day, which is actually September 16.
This is from www.mexonline.com.

I normally would not respond to you but it's just so much fun to call you on your BS.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Would the issue be more or less resolved if X amount of slots were provided to non-Hawaiians and these applicants had to pay their own tuition? I attended Catholic school when I was younger and they charged my folks a non-Catholic tuition since I wasn't Catholic.

It might be worth considering. Some Catholic schools still charge non-Catholics higher tuition---others do not. Many Catholic institutions are notoriously charitable, offering tuition aid to the indigent and multi-kid families.

Although the curriculum is geared towards the beliefs of Catholicism and the aim is to enroll Catholics and foster the continuation of the beliefs of the church they are not exclusionary in their admissions policies.

In light of the financial resources of KS, however, it might be looked upon as exceptionally cheesy to charge non-Hawaiians higher tuition.

[joshuatree]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

It might be worth considering. Some Catholic schools still charge non-Catholics higher tuition---others do not. Many Catholic institutions are notoriously charitable, offering tuition aid to the indigent and multi-kid families.

Although the curriculum is geared towards the beliefs of Catholicism and the aim is to enroll Catholics and foster the continuation of the beliefs of the church they are not exclusionary in their admissions policies.

In light of the financial resources of KS, however, it might be looked upon as exceptionally cheesy to charge non-Hawaiians higher tuition.

It may be cheesy but you figure by doing so, the will won't be broken and at the same time, the whole race thing is resolved too.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

It may be cheesy but you figure by doing so, the will won't be broken and at the same time, the whole race thing is resolved too.

I'm of the opinion that the Will wouldn't risk being violated, no matter who they let in.

I've read it. It is open to interpretation. I choose to believe that Bernice Pauahi Bishop was an extraordinarily charitable human being that would not approve of practices that would be exclusionary to any child residing in Hawaii. She spoke of "preference." But not exclusion.

For those who are so adamant that the Will be followed to the absolute letter of their interpretation, what about the part of the Will that states "I also direct that the teachers of said schools shall forever be persons of the Protestant religion, but I do not intend that the choice should be restricted to persons of any particular sect of Protestants."

Yes, it gets sticky.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

This thread is all over the map...

Let's review:

- this is a private school, created by the last will and testament, by a princess whose family ruled these isles four governments ago. Whose great-grandfather united the isles under one government. Whose granduncles naturalized citizens from all over the world. Not a tribal princess, but one who grew up under a constitutional monarchy, who married outside of her ethnicity, who was raised with, educated through, and freely adopted Christian principles and morals.

- this was an era where she saw an influx of foreigners from all corners of the world, and her native people dying out. Children orphaned. Old people burying all of their children and grandchildren, losing their line to all sorts of diseases. Finding an alarming number of their children infertile and unable to concieve or father another generation. This fate did not exempt her own peers; her teachers, Rev. A.S. Cooke and his wife educated 16 royal children through the Royal Chiefs' Children's School, and survived all but five of those pupils. Those 16, the third generation of governing ali'i included all from Kamehameha IV through Lili'uokalani, none of them having the luck to bear successfully another generation of ali'i.

- the ethic of those Christian teachers along with the tragedy that these young royals saw around them influenced them to their core. Look at their record of service:

• Alexander Liholiho (KIV) and Emma: started Queen's Hospital, among the oldest public health facilities in the Pacific.
  
• Lot Kapuaiwa (KV): built more buildings to further public needs than any other. From schools to prisons to hospitals for those afflicted with leprosy, he was completely preoccupied with developing needed infrastructure for a progressive Hawai'i.
  
• Lunalilo: his will provides for the Lunalilo Home, Hawai'i's oldest elder care facility, for those unfortunate kupuna who were poor and bereft of family to care for them.
  
• Kapi'olani, widow of Kalakaua: started QK Hospital for women and children--her original mission is still adhered to today.
  
• Lili'uokalani: inherited her brother Kalakaua's portion as well, and the estate combined is the corpus of the Queen Lili'uokalani Children's Center, for orphaned native Hawaiian children.

These royals were all contemporaries of Pauahi, and a few (Emma immediately springs to mind) were of mixed ethnicity. Look at their record on the whole: they tended to the neediest. Their focus was heavily for the native kanaka, but not exclusively so.

-Look at what Pauahi wrote, and pay attention to the form of English she used in how she wrote:

Thirteenth (third paragraph): I direct my trustees to invest the remainder of my estate in such manner as they may think best, and to expend the annual income in the maintenance of said schools; meaning thereby the salaries of teachers, the repairing buildings and other incidental expenses; and to devote a portion of each years income to the support and education of orphans, and others in indigent circumstances, giving the preference to Hawaiians of pure or part aboriginal blood; the proportion in which said annual income is to be divided among the various objects above mentioned to be determined solely by my said trustees they to have full discretion.

- What she said: she names two groups who should be educated: the orphaned and the indigent. She then qualifies who among them should recieve preference: native Hawaiian children. In that form of English, semi-colons separated sentences. That which follows a comma, if started with a verb is a dependent clause.

giving the preference to Hawaiians of pure or part aboriginal blood;

this is a dependent clause.

-What she did: a close eye on the earlier student body and curriculum of Kamehameha Schools yields an accurate measure of her goals for the school. The staff were Protestant and devout. The children were orphaned and indigent. It was known at that time as "the poor boys' school".

- the evolution of Kamehameha Schools. Ah, I've said enough already. In fact, so has everyone else on where KS is now, from where it was, and what its original intentions were. (hint: who is suing to get their kids into a poor boys' school? Who is taking a test to vie for a seat at the prestigious poor boys' school?) Once in a while, I need to get this off of my chest.

[Got2HaVKaYaNoW]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

wow, mahalo foa da manao, puamanao...

I am hawaiian, actually haw-por-tag-ee...like most hawaiians nowadays, and its great what our Queen has done and I think it should stay the way that she intended it to be.....I mean if the government is now allowing addendums(*spelling) to be made to peoples WILL'S. What tha hell would happen to this country....

I mean that would mean all these Life Policy's, Wills, whatever would have no, no aah whats the word?...(*bearing)...anyway what I mean is, not going make sense for people to draw up will's and stuff in order for their money, property, real estate, go to their beneficiaries(Spelling*) IF the government and OTHERS have the ability to challenge it. u know what I mean?

k- hope dat make sense....(*BTW) can tell I neva go KAM, yea? get planny spelling *'s on dis!

I gotta say dis though.......again, just like those above, I shouldn't but since we're on the topic....

I neva undastan why, hawaiian kids have to take a test, in order to be accepted into the school. In the Queens Will she said ALL hawaiian children are to benefit...hmmm...that always stumped me...

Anyway, thats my thoughts.

MS. KaYa RoSe

[PoiBoy]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I neva undastan why, hawaiian kids have to take a test, in order to be accepted into the school. In the Queens Will she said ALL hawaiian children are to benefit...hmmm...that always stumped me...

Shameful that they turn their back on their people that need them most.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

Kaya, I didn't go to KS either. But let me be honest: I was neither an orphaned nor indigent Hawaiian child. The generations above me in my family were lucky enough to attend KS. Their time spent there was during that "poor boy's school" era. If not for those fabulous opportunities that they received, I would not have grown up fortunate enough to be from a hard-working and educated family. KS provided that for them.

I don't know any non-alumni person who loves and follows KS as much as I do (that person might exist, but I would take it to the mat for that title ). It lifted my family out of poverty via its education and how they imparted a hard working ethic. For me, it would be have been a "legacy" thing had I've gone.

She didn't want that. And the more I have educated myself in this area of her will, English linguistics, and historical track record (both in terms of what our Princess' issues were and how KS has evolved in the Y2K) the more resolute my belief that my children should not attempt to enroll in KS. KS did for our family already. I thank the Princess from the bottom of my heart for that. Morally, I would like to see the school take the foster kids, the felix kids, the kids who are high-functioning within a dysfunctional setting and save their lives. Why? Because that school saved my family's. So it saved mine, before I was even born.

That's how much I love KS, and ought to sue the trustees myself one day to force them to adhere to the precious will, and stop trying to make it compete against the likes of Punahou. And every time I see a KS student get dropped off in a late-model SUV, I want to throw up.

[timkona]

Re: Can't they just leave us alone?

I would like to see the school take the foster kids, the felix kids, the kids who are high-functioning within a dysfunctional setting and save their lives. Why? Because that school saved my family's. So it saved mine, before I was even born.

The high achieving kids in the dysfunctional settings are the ones that can help society the most in the long run. It really makes no difference what the hell color they are. But society is essentially throwing away the future when the smartest, yet least advantaged, kids don't get the knowledge that KS can impart. In South Kona, I see this all too often.

And if dysfunctional settings exist more in Hawaiian families than in families of other pedigrees, as some of the apologists would argue on this forum, then by all means admit more of those kids.

Where high intelligence and the misfortune of fate intertwine, institutions like Kamehameha Schools can really help society.