Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

UH Haka

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • craigwatanabe
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by kiwidiva View Post
    How many stars are there in the sky???
    okay let's see: one,two, three, four, ummm okay there's another, oh there's one...nope just a UFO, six, seven...Seven. Seven stars in the sky, yep seven

    Leave a comment:


  • kiwidiva
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    BTW, besides the "Ka Mate" Haka, what other Haka(s) have been composed?
    What? Is that a serious question?? Haka have been composed by my ancestors for over a millenia and there are still haka being composed in Aotearoa every day.

    There are different types of haka composed for different events and each is used to portray different messages. The haka peruperu was performed before battle (contrary to popular belief - the Ka Mate haka is not a "war" dance) - the haka peruperu was performed not just to inspire the warriors but also to predict their fortune during the conflict. If they were in time and all their feet were raised during the all important jumping that occurs during a haka peruperu, then it was believed that they would be victorious.

    Ka mate is a haka taparahi - a ceremonial haka. Actually, studying the events surrounding the composition of ka mate and the words of the entire chant, it is actually a karakia, an incantation or prayer - chanted by Te Rauparaha to help him escape from his enemies.

    There are also haka called ngeri which are not choreographed but allow each performer to improvise according to their own feelings and interpretations. Haka are composed for funerals, deaths, protests - our people use haka to express themselves.

    Te Matatini, the National Maori Performing Arts festival was held in Aotearoa two weeks ago - thirty groups competed and each of them performed an original haka that they were judged on. Many schools, sports teams, social organizations etc. compose and perform their own haka.

    That's like asking how many poems have ever been written? How many mele have ever been composed?? How many hula??? How many stars are there in the sky???

    Leave a comment:


  • craigwatanabe
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by Random View Post
    But what is Hawaii?

    So what if they follow our customs? We've been seeing Westerners hosting luaus on the mainland, albeit not according to traditions and not without help from locals who goes over there because of better educational opportunities (or better football programs) than little ol' Hawaii.

    If you wanna ban Haka from Hawaii, let's go all the way (including high schools, intermediate, and elementary).

    BTW, besides the "Ka Mate" Haka, what other Haka(s) have been composed?
    I never said "Ban" did I?

    Nothing is bad until someone complains. In this case those who consider the Haka as sacred to their culture did complain and those who use it without regard to it's cultural significance should abide.

    It's all about respect for another's culture. I brought up Nebraska using a Hawaiian warrior chant because if they did, I'm sure Hawaiians here would be totally outraged.

    If the Haka is used to educate those about it's cultural value, then no I wouldn't "ban" it from our schools. But when something like that is used for entertainment value AND not of your culture then it is flagrant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Random
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    This is Hawaii so we should keep it that way.
    But what is Hawaii?

    So what if they follow our customs? We've been seeing Westerners hosting luaus on the mainland, albeit not according to traditions and not without help from locals who goes over there because of better educational opportunities (or better football programs) than little ol' Hawaii.

    If you wanna ban Haka from Hawaii, let's go all the way (including high schools, intermediate, and elementary).

    BTW, besides the "Ka Mate" Haka, what other Haka(s) have been composed?
    Last edited by Random; February 15, 2007, 04:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • craigwatanabe
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Maybe we need to put things into perspective here from the beginning. UH Haka...does that make sense at all? UH is all things Hawaii, Haka isn't.

    Kinda like saying: Celtic Hula.

    This is Hawaii so we should keep it that way.

    Who of Hawaiian ancestry would be offended if the Nebraska Cornhuskers started using some Hawaiian warrior chant? Same ting to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leo Lakio
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    I felt that his use of the phrase "the majority of" was an improvement on those who make similar statements with a direct, or implied "all."

    Still too big a blanket for my tastes - but then, what do you expect? I'm a "westerner."

    Leave a comment:


  • Kahalu'u Kid
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by PoiBoy View Post
    The majority of westerners feel they are entitled to everything. They have no respect for indigenous people or culture. They have no sense of what is tapu. This "great country" was built on colonialism,slavery,rape, and theft of land. So the states is a good place to get the views from "the other side". Even more so in Hawai'i.......where exploitation was mastered... perfected... fucken turned into an art. "They" catagorised polynesia's MANY cultures.....as a whole. The created a psuedo-polynesia in Hawai'i...with pcc and many others...so that they could exploit, not only Kanaka Maoli culture...but mine...and yours as well. People need to realise that we are different. Different islands and different tribes. Islands in the pacific share a history together that can allow us to relate but we are not the same.
    Western belief preaches that whole "hold hands..we are all one people". I say BULL. People who preach that are thieves...they expect everyone to conform to their ideals..their beliefs..their religion...then after they convert... they market those cultures they tried to destroy. Their long record of doing so speaks for itself.
    Hawai'i..........now home of a psuedo-culture created by capitalist.
    Mahalo to Poi Boy for having the guts to speak his mind. In my circle of friends, I'd say 9 out of 10 believe in the above. My friends are Kanaka Maoli, Filipino, Chinese, Kepanee, Portuguese, European, Indian, African, Chamorro, Palauan, Marshallese, Samoan. I like how Westerners always imply they're simply trying to "improve" our low-quality of life.

    Leave a comment:


  • PoiBoy
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by kiwidiva View Post
    Yes PoiBoy... so true! I was recently asked why I am not as offended by these English women as I am by these schools in Hawai'i and honestly, I don't expect any better from the British. Precisely for the reasons you have stated...



    I do however expect more respect from the University of HAWAI'I and from the Polynesian players on the team. That whole, "we're all Polynesians so we're all entitled to it," excuse is so offensive! The old saying, "the oppressed will in turn oppress" rings true when I hear that line.

    For the record PoiBoy, I am Te Rarawa & Te Aupouri (Maori tribal affiliations) but I am also Samoan with a bit of Fijian and further back can trace my family tree to Germany, England, Ireland & France. Lucky me! REALLY!!

    I wish more Samoans felt the way you do. It's the Samoan players on the team who are leading the charge here. I've found that most of my Samoan side of the family just don't get it. My husband (full Samoan) just cannot understand why I'm making such a big fuss...
    It's bad to see my own people pull that crap. Just try to keep in mind that... this "psuedo-polynesia" is drilled into their head from a young age. It's all around in Hawai'i. The best we can do is try to educate them.


    For the record PoiBoy, I am Te Rarawa & Te Aupouri (Maori tribal affiliations) but I am also Samoan with a bit of Fijian and further back can trace my family tree to Germany, England, Ireland & France. Lucky me! REALLY!!
    You could throw in a little Tongan if you wanted to ... given the history of Samoa,Tonga, and Fiji. *Second thought* Naw.... (just joking my Tongan friends.)
    Last edited by PoiBoy; February 11, 2007, 03:33 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • scrivener
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by PoiBoy View Post
    The majority of westerners feel they are entitled to everything. They have no respect for indigenous people or culture.
    Another blanket statement. Would you please tell me where you get off citing the "majority" of westerners' attitudes? It is arguments like this that continue to derail any attempt you make at having a reasonable, meaningful conversation here. Look: People are reading this thread. That means you have an attentive audience, and chances are you could change people's minds (just as my own was changed in some ways during the course of this discussion). However, you cannot expect people to pay attention to what you have to say if you keep saying things like "the majority of westerners feels..."

    You could say something like, "It has been my experience that..." or "It seems to me that many westerners...," but you insist on issuing statements that you can in no way defend, at least not in a rational conversation.

    Leave a comment:


  • kiwidiva
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Yes PoiBoy... so true! I was recently asked why I am not as offended by these English women as I am by these schools in Hawai'i and honestly, I don't expect any better from the British. Precisely for the reasons you have stated...

    They have no respect for indigenous people or culture. They have no sense of what is tapu.
    I do however expect more respect from the University of HAWAI'I and from the Polynesian players on the team. That whole, "we're all Polynesians so we're all entitled to it," excuse is so offensive! The old saying, "the oppressed will in turn oppress" rings true when I hear that line.

    For the record PoiBoy, I am Te Rarawa & Te Aupouri (Maori tribal affiliations) but I am also Samoan with a bit of Fijian and further back can trace my family tree to Germany, England, Ireland & France. Lucky me! REALLY!!

    I wish more Samoans felt the way you do. It's the Samoan players on the team who are leading the charge here. I've found that most of my Samoan side of the family just don't get it. My husband (full Samoan) just cannot understand why I'm making such a big fuss...

    Leave a comment:


  • PoiBoy
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    The majority of westerners feel they are entitled to everything. They have no respect for indigenous people or culture. They have no sense of what is tapu. This "great country" was built on colonialism,slavery,rape, and theft of land. So the states is a good place to get the views from "the other side". Even more so in Hawai'i.......where exploitation was mastered... perfected... fucken turned into an art. "They" catagorised polynesia's MANY cultures.....as a whole. The created a psuedo-polynesia in Hawai'i...with pcc and many others...so that they could exploit, not only Kanaka Maoli culture...but mine...and yours as well. People need to realise that we are different. Different islands and different tribes. Islands in the pacific share a history together that can allow us to relate but we are not the same.
    Western belief preaches that whole "hold hands..we are all one people". I say BULL. People who preach that are thieves...they expect everyone to conform to their ideals..their beliefs..their religion...then after they convert... they market those cultures they tried to destroy. Their long record of doing so speaks for itself.
    Hawai'i..........now home of a psuedo-culture created by capitalist.
    Last edited by PoiBoy; February 11, 2007, 12:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • kiwidiva
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Wow! This thread has received even more attention since I was last in here. Thank you all for adding your perspectives - I really appreciate it!

    I get all worked up about this issue in person and my emotions don't really let me get past my own point of view so it's good to read what you all think.

    I am working on an article for a magazine back in Aotearoa about the use of haka overseas. I'm trying to be a good journalist and write the article in a neutral voice, interviewing people who both agree and disagree with my opinion. Basically, I want to raise awareness of this issue in Aotearoa because many people back there don't even know it's happening - let alone have an opinion on it.

    Just to throw out another distantly related but slightly off the topic example of the misuse of haka overseas (IMHO) - check out this story: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/stor...ectid=10418499

    Unfortunately, this one was controversial more for the nudity than the cultural rip off.

    Leave a comment:


  • PoiBoy
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Once more time for those who don't undestand.

    It's oh so simple...the Maori of Aotearoa don't want UH to use it. The All blacks don't want UH to use it.


    edited:
    "scrivener"
    "Do tribal leaders speak on behalf of the tribes regarding matters of taste?"

    I took this as someone being a smart ass.
    ---edited---


    originally posted by: PoiBoy
    "The Maori are broken up into different tribes(iwi) and subtribes(hapu). That tribes leaders speak on behalf of that tribe.

    The tribe Ngati Toa owns the "ka mate". And they gave permision for the AB's to use their "ka mate". As for the "Kapa O Pango" it was created specifically for the AB's by Maori Ngati Porou's Derek Lardelli. Derek Lardelli received his tribes blessing."
    Last edited by PoiBoy; January 23, 2007, 04:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • pzarquon
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by PoiBoy View Post
    So what exactly is your point?
    I'm beginning to sense a theme of futility in attempting any meaningful conversation here, but... I think scrivener's point was pretty darn clear the first time -- and clarified for you the second time.

    There's a world of difference between "The Maori love the AB's" and "The tribal leaders of Ngati Toa have authorized the AB's use of the ka mate." Just like there's a world of difference between "All black people love the movie Dreamgirls" and "The NAACP's Image Awards showered praise on Dreamgirls." One specific group's endorsement does not mean all members of an ethnic, political, or other demographic group agree.

    As scrivener said in the first place, "I'm sure I could find one Maori somewhere who roots for South Africa in the Tri-Nations Series, and what then?" In other words, not all Maori love the AB's. In other words, tread carefully with blanket statements.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pua'i Mana'o
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by PoiBoy View Post
    Pua'i Mana'o- I fail to see your point?

    Do you disagree that it's the Maori's decision who get's to use their haka?
    I disagree with the blanket of "it's the [insert lahui] decision who get's to use their [insert noun]" as an effective argument. In theoretical usage, it is both beautiful and noble. Let the people decide!!!! In practice, it creates controversy, and it is a shrewd political move to create chaos within that lahui and default into stagnation.

    Think about it.Ā

    They have already said they don't wan't UH to use it. So what's to debate. I try to be respectful to you Pua'i Mana'o ...as I respect all Polynesian elders...but sometimes I wonder whos side you are on. Either you are trying to test me or you don't like me. Maybe both.
    Please don't make this into something personal or disrespectful, Poiboy, for I certainly am not. I state above that which precisely is my point, which hasn't anything to do with the haka equation, as much as it is a concern that when we cast so wide a net newscasting that a whole people has decided upon an issue, when the real world never works that way. There are only two recorded facts within our own people's history where our ancestors monumentally decided upon a similar issue:

    -the most rapid rates of Christian conversion of people on the planet in a short period of time
    -over 38K signatures on the Kū‘ē petition (considering that our native population two years later didn't quite number 40K, that was just about everybody)

    It was ironic to me that your last few posts are about the Maori™, when the very Maori posting on this board has been more than forthright in sharing about their own controversies. Add to it our own exchange on the subject (remember you telling me about me/mine and you/your aiga ) and how we managed to get through it with a good and new understanding, that I felt--and still feel--quite comfortable going here with you.

    Again, not personal at all. He ho‘onui‘ike wale nō.

    aloha, Pua'i
    Last edited by Pua'i Mana'o; January 23, 2007, 03:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X