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  • joshuatree
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
    60 Minutes did a feature on how Brazil became energy independent by brewing alcohol from sugar cane, I posted about that a couple of times. America has had opportunities to become energy self sufficient, the present corn alcohol system seems flawed, it evidently consumes more energy than it produces, but the sugar cane system in Brazil works fine, it could in the US, too, a huge boon to the economies of all the southern states. Will it ever happen? Problem is, the oil industry, like the health insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry basically does control what government does, so the long term good of the country is perpetually sacrificed to the benefit of the few, the privileged, the rich, the powerful, and if the whole country collapses as a result of bad economics (paying our energy debt to the Mideast with money borrowed from China, for example), well who cares as long as those Swiss bank accounts get bigger, right? The ship of state might be going under, but the privileged elite will survive and prosper just fine.
    We probably have a better shot at ethanol produced from switchgrass or algae than sugar. Sugar works for Brazil due to other factors such as their consumption is much less than ours. The amount of land we need to produce enough ethanol from sugar will probably be unrealistic. And their labor is cheap enough to do this. We have a hard time as it is to find US labor willing to work the fields. Corn based ethanol is nothing more than another special interest, the corn industry, promoting their agenda.

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  • Kalalau
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    60 Minutes did a feature on how Brazil became energy independent by brewing alcohol from sugar cane, I posted about that a couple of times. America has had opportunities to become energy self sufficient, the present corn alcohol system seems flawed, it evidently consumes more energy than it produces, but the sugar cane system in Brazil works fine, it could in the US, too, a huge boon to the economies of all the southern states. Will it ever happen? Problem is, the oil industry, like the health insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry basically does control what government does, so the long term good of the country is perpetually sacrificed to the benefit of the few, the privileged, the rich, the powerful, and if the whole country collapses as a result of bad economics (paying our energy debt to the Mideast with money borrowed from China, for example), well who cares as long as those Swiss bank accounts get bigger, right? The ship of state might be going under, but the privileged elite will survive and prosper just fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • matapule
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by timkona View Post
    Can't drill here, there, over there, or down there.
    Not true.

    Environmentalism, and the resulting increase in bureaucracy and paperwork, has increased cost dramatically.
    Not nearly as much as driving a gas guzzling car.

    What is the price for good health? I guess you are saying it is too expensive to breathe clean air.

    Seems to me that the folks who can least afford increasing gas prices are the same people who protest anything related to increased production.
    I protest people who protest we don't have enough production.

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  • timkona
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Can't build refineries. Have not built a new one in America in over 20 years.
    Can't drill here, there, over there, or down there.
    Environmentalism, and the resulting increase in bureaucracy and paperwork, has increased cost dramatically.
    Speculation, combined with spineless politicians, just excacerbates the problem.
    I'm just glad that Ol'Bammy promotes NUKES. The $8 billion dollar plan signed last year is just brilliant. Right?


    Seems to me that the folks who can least afford increasing gas prices are the same people who protest anything related to increased production.

    Funny how you never see protesters on Wall St.

    Leave a comment:


  • joshuatree
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
    Speaking of which, President Obama has been trumpeting a little somethin’ somethin’ at every campaign stop. According to the Associated Press, Obama is proposing to eliminate $4 billion in subsidies for oil companies, and perhaps, investing that money in alternatives. What do you think of this? Does it really address the problem? I would think that Obama’s “solution” would take decades before it would solve our energy quagmire. As a country, we already have our hands full building charging stations for electric cars (to say nothing of the fact than less than 1 of every 500,000 motorists actually drive one). And that hardly addresses a significant source of these charging station’s electricity: oil.
    Instead of redirecting the subsidies to alternatives, I think he should reinvest that money into maintaining and upgrading dilapidating infrastructure. The fed gas tax should be restructured so it's a percentage of sales, not just a fixed amount per gallon. And quite frankly, the best way to rely less on gas would be to use less of it, not finding a substitute. That will happen on its own when this world runs out of petrol. Start increasing sales tax on larger vehicles in displacement and decrease sales tax on smaller vehicles. Exempt bonafide business use vehicles. Start redesigning roadways so large cargo semis are separated from smaller vehicular traffic.

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  • TuNnL
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
    I dont blame obama at all. but he goes have the power to do something about it.
    Speaking of which, President Obama has been trumpeting a little somethin’ somethin’ at every campaign stop. According to the Associated Press, Obama is proposing to eliminate $4 billion in subsidies for oil companies, and perhaps, investing that money in alternatives. What do you think of this? Does it really address the problem? I would think that Obama’s “solution” would take decades before it would solve our energy quagmire. As a country, we already have our hands full building charging stations for electric cars (to say nothing of the fact than less than 1 of every 500,000 motorists actually drive one). And that hardly addresses a significant source of these charging station’s electricity: oil.

    Leave a comment:


  • escondido100
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    I dont blame obama at all. but he goes have the power to do something about it. The problem of high gas prices cannot be blamed on any one person. it is the system that has taken years to adapt to the wiley ways of profiteers for the benifit of the few at the expense of many. Right now at this point in time its the speculators driving the price of gas up. Obama has the power to correct this. as does congress .....and we the voters.

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  • Ron Whitfield
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    For too many it's all about Obama The Really Really Bad and ignoring that we're still and will be paying for 8 years of Bush con-trol and decades of oil scams.
    When BO said Europe prices were OK it was with the view that something needs to smack gas hog overconsumers where it hurts to finally quit using too much so the common folk can get a break eventually, and to get alt tech going stronger. But the party of NO says NO.

    Leave a comment:


  • salmoned
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
    the president has the ability as others before him to require a rule change on hedge funds. instead of buying on a twenty percent margin require a 50 to 60 percent buy in. this would curtail the speculators tomorrow. also require opec to not tie gas prices to the dollar but to let them float ..they would increase production and prices would fall.
    obamas biggest contributer is a hedge fund guy...George Soros...so this probably wont happen any time soon... but it could alleviate the problem if he really cared about the common folk filling their tanks of gas.
    i remember during his campaign he thought it would be fine if gas reached the same prices as europe. i wonder what he will do?
    Sorry escondido, common folk in this world don't have gas tanks to fill.

    Leave a comment:


  • matapule
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
    obamas biggest contributer is a hedge fund guy...George Soros...so this probably wont happen any time soon... but it could alleviate the problem if he really cared about the common folk filling their tanks of gas.?
    I would venture that every President's biggest contributor is connected to hedge funds somehow. Why haven't other Presidents done something about hedge funds? More information needed before we can lay the blame at the foot of Obama. I can say that Obama has increased domestic oil production and we are less dependent on foreign oil than under Bush. Maybe the boogie man isn't OPEC but our very own comrads living among us!

    Leave a comment:


  • escondido100
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    the president has the ability as others before him to require a rule change on hedge funds. instead of buying on a twenty percent margin require a 50 to 60 percent buy in. this would curtail the speculators tomorrow. also require opec to not tie gas prices to the dollar but to let them float ..they would increase production and prices would fall.
    obamas biggest contributer is a hedge fund guy...George Soros...so this probably wont happen any time soon... but it could alleviate the problem if he really cared about the common folk filling their tanks of gas.
    i remember during his campaign he thought it would be fine if gas reached the same prices as europe. i wonder what he will do?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Whitfield
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
    Why should the economic well being of literally billions of people, and political stability of the whole world, be sacrificed just so these parasites can bleed even more billions of dollars?
    Why stop now when it's been working so well for them? With this last week in big oil news we see there were again no lessons learned from any of the latest blarring warnings and deaths. Offshore drilling has resumed full bore with grand blessings, viable alts/innovations are further shunned, the Gulf is still doomed from BP/US, and the little guys are still sucking it while those responsible are making even more $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Gasoline has been a royal scam since prohibition, enjoy the rape, there's much more to come.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kalalau
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Last time gas prices leaped it turned out to be because of speculators. At one point Morgan Stanley owned more oil than Exxon. Probably its speculation again. Economists will say we need speculative markets to smooth out the bumps for suppliers and consumers. You can make a nice case for that. But today a great deal of the instability in world capital markets (Greece, Ireland, Iceland, Portugal, and now the US) is caused by speculation, and a great deal of economic and political instability in the Middle East is caused by leaping food prices caused by Wall St. speculators. They are not smoothing out bumps, they are causing them. They are parasites, their function needs to be eliminated or heavily regulated. Why should the economic well being of literally billions of people, and political stability of the whole world, be sacrificed just so these parasites can bleed even more billions of dollars?

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  • salmoned
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Are we lagging behind in our addiction or our treatment for addiction? Kind of silly to compare fossil fuel utilization to addiction anyway. As well, why blame oil companies for soaring prices, do you believe they are restricting production to raise prices? If so, you're dead wrong. Price manipulation is much easier for big-pocketed financial speculators (easy money makes for easy price manipulation), though a well endowed oil-producing country or two may guide prices almost as easily by manipulating supply.
    Last edited by salmoned; April 20, 2011, 10:37 PM.

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  • TuNnL
    replied
    Re: Gas Prices

    Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
    Fascinating to review the start of this thread in 2008, watching the fluctuations and prices back then.
    I don’t see what is so fascinating about it. Oil companies, like tobacco companies, have manipulated the public since their inception. The only thing curious to me is how hopelessly addicted industrial nations are to petroleum, and how the U.S. by its own admission, continues to lag behind. I saw a speech given by Department of Energy secretary Steven Chu on YouTube™. Eye-opening stuff.

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