Hybrids

[joshuatree]

Re: Hybrids

There was a time when the CRX first came out that it had the Civic namesake. It said Civic on one side with CRX on the other side of the hatchback.

I think it was about the time Honda stopped calling the Civic the CVCC.

The two most popular definitions for what CRX stood for were Civic Racing Experiment and Civic Renaissance Model X. I always believed in the former.

It is a very fuel efficient car but I think the reasons why new gas sippers like the Yaris can only manage 40 vs the 50 on the HF are new stricter emission standards, slightly better performance specs of modern cars, and the increased weight from additional and better safety systems (ABS, EBD, SRS, etc).

Hybrids still have a ways to go but I do believe they are a step in the right direction. If costs can be reduced further, better and environmentally safer batteries can be developed, and gas prices keep going up; hybrids will eventually become the better deal. I think hybrid technology is best applied to gas guzzlers like SUVs. They can make the most difference there vs applying hybrid tech to already fuel efficient cars like the Civic.

Smart cars are also very practical if our govt simply adopts more reasonable road regulations like separating auto traffic from truck traffic or requiring all drivers to take mandatory safety driving courses. Of course, all of this means cost. And it's always easier to sneak the cost back onto the consumer in the form of more safety features on cars instead of commonsense road rules or improving driver skills. That's why American market cars just keep getting bigger and bigger to be safer. It's just a nonstop ante up war. I'm waiting to buy a tank, pretty safe there.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hybrids

Honestly some of the car commercials show their new models racing around city streets and open country roads. Inspiring isn't it to peel the leaves off a tree then having the nerve to put them back with their motto of giving back to the environment. It's like raping a girl then bragging about finding an abuse shelter for her.

The media tells us to conserve but it also tells us to indulge. Zero to 60 in how many seconds? How much horsepower does one need driving around the congested streets of Honolulu?

[joshuatree]

Re: Hybrids

Honestly some of the car commercials show their new models racing around city streets and open country roads. Inspiring isn't it to peel the leaves off a tree then having the nerve to put them back with their motto of giving back to the environment. It's like raping a girl then bragging about finding an abuse shelter for her.

The media tells us to conserve but it also tells us to indulge. Zero to 60 in how many seconds? How much horsepower does one need driving around the congested streets of Honolulu?

Maybe a car commercial where the new model races around streets and it peels all the trash on the roads right up and conveniently into trash bins?

Well, sadly the main point of the commercial is to get you to buy the car so what appeals to people? What makes them get rid of their perfectly fine 3 year old car for the latest and greatest? It's the sex factor, the new 0-60 spec, etc etc.

As for people who argue that larger cars like SUVs are safer....that's all relative. Indeed, you are safer when you collide with a little Yaris. But the stats show no difference if it's SUV vs SUV. So if everyone quit the arms escalation race, if let's say everyone drove Yaris's, the safety factor is the same. Which is why road regulations that separate traffic, trucks from autos, make a lot of sense and would contribute a whole lot more to safety than any ABS or airbag every could.

[speedtek]

Re: Hybrids

I researched buying a hybrid and the battery situation is what stopped me from further consideration. So expensive...around $3k, iirc. A friend of mine owns a Toyota hybrid and loves it. She told me that only a faulty cell gets replaced, not the entire battery. Must admit I didn't look into that as I'd already purchased a car. So, what's up with replacing just a cell? Any truth to that?

There are not too many faulty Toyota Battery packs. also they are not that big. In the mainland there are shops that will swap out a bad pack with a recondition one for under $1000. I have seen them on ebay for less for wrecked cars. There is also a Toyota Prius with 325k on the car and has not done any major service yet. I think plug-in hybrids are the way to go. I am so tempted to buy a used Prius and build one. There is someone on the internet that purchased 2 used Prius battery packs for the wrecking yard and installed in series in his Prius and he is getting 135 mpg! Total cost for his conversion is under $1000 plus the car. Of course the oil companies are hating all this modifying because they are LO$ING MONEY!!

Watch the movie "WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR?" It is an eye opener!

[zff]

Re: Hybrids

It would be interesting to see a hybrid powerplant beefed up for greater output and transplanted into something sporty. A hybrid S2000, maybe?

Speedtek, can a regenerative braking system recover all the energy from the kind of braking you'd see in a road race?

[speedtek]

Re: Hybrids

from the test reports i have seen the driver can set/control how much regenative braking they want to the point that if they let go of the throttle it will apply like having full brakes on. This is from the Formula EV racing series. Energy recovered is enough to push the car another 10% in mileage in some cases.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hybrids

But will it fly when you put it on a conveyor belt DOH!!

[Erika Engle]

Re: I've gotchyer hybrid right here

Don't know if it'll beat the sportscar designation with its 2+2 seating ... because it's 400 freakin' hp!

(and oh-so-pretty, to my eye)

http://news.windingroad.com/concept-...ft-hs-concept/

Or, if you prefer, this TinyURL version:

http://tinyurl.com/ynzfte

[tutusue]

Re: I've gotchyer hybrid right here

Don't know if it'll beat the sportscar designation with its 2+2 seating ... because it's 400 freakin' hp!

(and oh-so-pretty, to my eye)[...]

Yikes! I want one!

[GeckoGeek]

Re: I've gotchyer hybrid right here

http://news.windingroad.com/concept-...ft-hs-concept/

The link didn't work until I left out the final /.

Eh. The style doesn't do much for me.

[zff]

Re: Hybrids

from the test reports i have seen the driver can set/control how much regenative braking they want to the point that if they let go of the throttle it will apply like having full brakes on. This is from the Formula EV racing series. Energy recovered is enough to push the car another 10% in mileage in some cases.

My understanding of current regenerative braking systems is that they're only used for light braking because their ability to recover energy is limited. Hard braking is still done by conventional disc brakes. Is this correct? If so, what's the limiting factor? Why aren't regenerative brakes able to provide enough stopping power to lock the tires? I would imagine they don't fade like conventional brakes do, so if they can do all the braking, it would be a far superior system.

Formula EV looks intriguing. I've never even heard of it before. Still, I just don't see how EV road racing being can be nearly as interesting as fuel-burning road racing for a long time. I think hybrid road racing, however, can be competitive in the very near future.

I've read that FIA (the governing body of Formula 1), in an attempt to be more green, will start allowing limited energy recovery systems on F1 cars. They plan to make energy recovery a bigger part of F1 over the next few years. I find that extremely exciting. With the kind of money F1 spends on R&D, I can't wait to see what they come up with.

It's refreshing to find another gearhead who's interested in EVs and hybrids. It's even more refreshing to hear you're working with other gearheads locally on EVs I might actually be interested in. Bravo.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hybrids

My understanding of current regenerative braking systems is that they're only used for light braking because their ability to recover energy is limited. ... what's the limiting factor?

Electricity is generated when you move a conductor though a magnetic field. That's the basis of a generator. As you load the generator, you create a mechanical "load" on the thing that's moving the conductor.

Or, to re-phrase, the wheel turns the generator (actually the motor now acting as a generator) the power for the generator goes into the battery and as a result, the car is slowed down.

The amount of voltage created is a function of how fast the conductor moves (how fast the wheel turns). Once it goes too low, it's not useful for charging the battery. I suppose it's not cost effective to build a DC "transformer" to step up that limited voltage to useful values.

On top of that, this type of action can never bring the car to a stop. As the car slows down, less power is generated and there's less braking effect. Even if you short the generator, the shaft can still turn. Therefor, one must have conventional brakes to bring the car to a complete stop.

I've read that FIA (the governing body of Formula 1), in an attempt to be more green, will start allowing limited energy recovery systems on F1 cars. They plan to make energy recovery a bigger part of F1 over the next few years. I find that extremely exciting. With the kind of money F1 spends on R&D, I can't wait to see what they come up with.

That would be interesting! How well it translates into a daily driver is a different story, but the research will be helpful. I imagine there's quite an incentive to do that. They chew up a lot of energy in braking. To be able to recover some of that might mean being able to skip a pit stop for fuel. That would be a major competitive advantage.

[speedtek]

Re: Hybrids

Part of the problem in full regen braking is that all wheels must have a motor in them for either propulsion or braking. full stops can be achieved but the controller to do that is very complexed right now and is basically ending up like a ABS system. I know MB and BMW have been working on this for years.

just a thought.....
If you drive a pure electric car 12,000 miles a year and it gets 120 miles per charge. that would be 100 full charges at $1.75 each (estimated) for a total cost of $175.00 a year. Factor in a $2000 battery pack/3 years = 667.00
total cost 842 per year. and there are no tune-ups or anything else that should be replaced for a long time.....

There is a Toyota RAV4 EV (100% Electric) in California that has 125,000 miles on its NI-MH battery packs. The car has never had a brake job and no other parts have ever been changed on the car since 1997 except the tires! (twice) and it has A/C. gets 120 miles between charges!

[speedtek]

Re: Hybrids

Two problems with Hybrids and their batteries when involved in an auto crash is 1) Rescue personnel have been trained to determine what parts of the car cannot be cut with the Jaws of Life due to concerns of electrocution or severe electrical burns from cutting into high amperage wiring. And 2) If the batteries used contain any acid what happens in a crash when acid leaks from the batteries.

I Think gasoline and oil are just as dangerous and the battery on most cars is mounted in front. and in an accident gets the most damage!

Most Manufactured EVs and Hybrids have battery packs that are well protected.

[Hellbent]

Re: Hybrids

I just bought a new car, a Saturn Vue. I wanted the hybrid, but it was too expensive. Even the dealers said it wasnt worth it.