Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

aloha-anon, I realize you probably work for Aloha and would greatly defend the two major incumbents because your livelihood is on the line. And I respect that.

But I think you're mixing two issues up into one. The first issue is Mesa. Everyone who's been paying attention knows Mesa is an airline with a dubious record. And most likely, AQ and HA will get some form of compensation with the court rulings. Even Mesa "supporters" know this. I'm not disputing Mesa's rep and I don't think anyone in this discussion has either.

The other issue is public perception of AQ & HA. People are fed up with the high prices before Mesa started this price war. People didn't like the removal of the coupon system and the lack of inflexibility when it came to switching flights without being slapped fees. So I guess people like dick are asking what's your take on that? Why the one-two punch to the local flying public?

These days, HERO is asking for the local flying public to back AQ & HA up. And we're just asking back, why? Yes, if one of the incumbents were to go under, Mesa would not be a good thing long term for Hawaii. But we don't think AQ & HA is good for us long term either at this point. Maybe you can shed some light on what AQ & HA is trying to do for the local flying public after this debacle is over? If you drive go! out, will the prices go back to what was before?

Yes, some mainland fares are more than what AQ & HA charges but people there have other options, car, greyhound, amtrak. The only other option we have here for now is maybe one personally owns a boat or knows of someone who owns a boat to make the trek across.

[Surfingfarmboy]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

This past week I just used my 2 $19 tickets to be with my family this Thanksgiving holiday. I was on the Big Island for 4 days to eat Thanksgiving turkey, spend time with my family and even get the brunt of a 5.0 earthquake thrown my way. All because this year I chose not to sacrifice Thanksgiving like I did last year.

Last year at $79 each way for the cheapest flight on Aloha, I could only choose one holiday... Christmas.

This year I bought 4 $19 tickets (near $25 each when taxes are calculated in) for less than $100! So in December I go again for $19 each way for my Christmas holiday.

I just bought an HNL-OGG round trip in December for $29 each way online at the Hawaiian Air web site...I thought I had a pretty good deal until I read of your $19 fare flights! I was originally going to book a flight to Kapalua, but when I saw the much cheaper fares into Kahului, I opted to fly there instead.

It appears I'm going to have to bite the bullet and pay a lot more for the flight I have planned to Lanai City, also in December. I think Island Air was offering the best fares (at the time) on that non-so-competitive route among the inter-island carriers.

[808shooter]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

The airline industry as a whole is very capitalistic. The airlines charge based upon the laws of supply and demand. Fares are higher around the holidays and summer than at other times during the year.

The cost of flying a plane does not factor into the cost of a ticket. When the cost of operating goes up, ie fuel costs today, the airlines aren't totally able to pass the cost onto the consumer because the consumer doesn't have to pay it. They have alternate means of transportation. And here is the basis for my point.

Folks in Hawaii who want to travel - don't have any other options. NONE. They either fly or stay put. No driving, no bus, no train, no ferry, no bridge - nothing. It is another example of a very monopolistic industry here, like the shipping industries and petroleum. No competition.

You can't compare the markets here and on the mainland as they are very different. Granted, given the monopoly, prices could be much higher - but Aloha and Hawaiian have already figured out that would decrease travel and hurt overall gross revenues although ROI profitabilty may be higher. It is not competitive here between Aloha and Hawaiian because to remain profitable, both airlines recognize they have the same problems. Bloated costs. Costs of fuel, costs of operating less efficiant planes and a unionized labor force.

Aloha and Hawaiian have enjoyed their duopoly for years. Remaining profitable because there was no competition. The recent bankruptcy filing in 2004 was the result of competition hurting Aloha and taking market share. The problem? Their cost structure was out of whack.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../bz/bz04p.html

The reason why comparable distance flights on the mainland are higher are because the market justifies the cost. Poorer folks who want to see family can drive or catch a bus. Upper middle class or business travellers are willing to shell out higher costs for convenience. That alternative is missing for local folks here. If Mesa ruled this market on it's own, it would probably find the optimal pricing structure to maximize interisland travel while keeping profitablity margins. I'd bet that due to their lower operating costs, they could increase the overall volume of interisle travel by decreasing fares and still remain profitable because they can operate more cheaply.

Just by being here, Go! put pressure on Aloha and Hawaiian to even further trim their operating costs to remain competitive. It Go! drives either Aloha or Hawaiian under but the remaining airline is healthier because it has a lower cost structure, I hope that the market here will return to normal - with lower fares of course. No guarantees but that is how I view the situation. Go! is not evil, it is a very aggressive competitor. It may have dealt with Aloha and Hawaiian unethically but thus far have not treated the people of Hawaii that way. What is to stop them from raising fares once Aloha or Hawaiian are bankrupt? Nothing but if it makes economic sense not to do so, they won't. I'm betting it wouldn't make sense.

[808shooter]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Maybe you can shed some light on what AQ & HA is trying to do for the local flying public after this debacle is over? If you drive go! out, will the prices go back to what was before?

You type faster than I do :-)

Aloha and Hawaiian are stuck. They have to balance profitability with increasing market share. They can't do anything more without busting the unions, using smaller more fuel efficient planes and maybe operating leaner with smaller backoffice staff. Maybe outsourcing non-core functions in the company.

There was a really good airlines simulation game that really touched on this airline industry as a business. Airbiz or something... Anybody remember? You owned an airlines and chose the routes you wanted to fly. You also had to choose your planes and remain profitable. It was really cool.

Here is is: Aerobiz
http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/aerobiz


Awsome game. Maybe we should have all of the business reporters, pilots, HT know-it-alls out there (like me :-) play the game to have a better understanding of the industry.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Aloha and Hawaiian are stuck. They have to balance profitability with increasing market share. They can't do anything more without busting the unions, using smaller more fuel efficient planes and maybe operating leaner with smaller backoffice staff. Maybe outsourcing non-core functions in the company.

Awsome game. Maybe we should have all of the business reporters, pilots, HT know-it-alls out there (like me :-) play the game to have a better understanding of the industry.

You're right, AQ & HA will have to do some serious rework on the interisland divisions to change up their game. Using more fuel efficient planes is one component that can change easily. As for union busting, what happened during the bankruptcies? I thought when you are under chapt. 11, you can do just that? To me, I don't see anything different with either airlines before and after the bankruptcies, just shedding some debts and pensions. Is that it? If so, I can almost guarantee fares will be like before without go!.

Haha, even better if all the business reporters, pilots, HT folks can play the game interactively and see who's business model will succeed.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Even you say it yourself on the blog Mel.

"consumers will do good to take advantage of the current low prices now before one or more of the interisland carriers go out of business and prices climb again".

Its pretty obvious even to supposed go! "supporters" what Mesa is doing here in Hawaii. how anybody things this is good for hawaii long term is beyond me. I SHOULD JUST GIVE UP.

Yes, I have read some of the links you provided in previous posts and other articles published in the media. No doubt the incumbent carriers in the interisland market are pissed.

Generally speaking I prefer to fly Hawaiian.

However when it comes to consumables that will give me nearly the exact same product or service, I am motivated by how much money I can save vs. loyalty to a firm.

Hence when I made my $19 reservations, I pulled up 4 browser windows and chose those flights that gave me the promotional prices for the window I wanted to travel in. Was very simple. Airline loyalties were set aside in favor of better pricing.

Certainly I don't expect $19, $29 or even $39 prices to last forever. But while they are around I definitely will take advantage of them if I can fit travel into my schedule. And I did just that.

I urge all people who want to travel between neighor islands to do this, because we can never tell when one airline or another will be driven out of the market or some external condition may force prices up. Just gotta take advantage of the market conditions when favorable for consumers.

It's just like me going to the fire sale at Tower Records to buy cheap CDs (if there are any)....

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

I just bought an HNL-OGG round trip in December for $29 each way online at the Hawaiian Air web site...I thought I had a pretty good deal until I read of your $19 fare flights!

The $19 fares were part of a 1 or 2 week promotion. You gotta keep your eyes open for when bargains come up and plan early to see if you can travel within the window under which the bargain takes place.

But hey, $29 is a darn good fare. Had you done this last year, you'd consider it good to travel for $79.

Monitoring this thread and successive ones on this subject matter is a good way to keep on top of fares. I or others will post the new competitive fare when they are made public.

It appears I'm going to have to bite the bullet and pay a lot more for the flight I have planned to Lanai City, also in December. I think Island Air was offering the best fares (at the time) on that non-so-competitive route among the inter-island carriers.

As for Lanai, Island Air pretty much has a monopoly in that market. I think their only other competition right now is Pacific Wings. Go! is supposed to be entering the small airport market in a partnership with Mokulele Airlines sometime next month. I don't know if the prices to these small airports will be as competitive as routes to the 5 major ones.

Me, I'm still waiting for a firm with a bigger plane to start serving Kamuela Airport (MUE) on the Big Island. Island Air???

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

I just bought an HNL-OGG round trip in December for $29 each way online at the Hawaiian Air web site...I thought I had a pretty good deal until I read of your $19 fare flights! I was originally going to book a flight to Kapalua, but when I saw the much cheaper fares into Kahului, I opted to fly there instead.

What you're buying for the extra money to fly into Kapalua instead of OGG is convenience. If time is worth money to you, and you were staying on the Lahaina side, then yes, you would definitely fly into Kapalua because you would completely avoid having to mess with the gridlock that is the pali road.

But if you have all the time in the world, then go for the cheapest fare and keep your fingers crossed. Since the Honoapiilani Hwy seems to get closed down at least once a month now (bad accidents or range fires), people who are mostly visiting the West side might want to fly into Kapalua. If you're staying in the Lahaina area anyway, you could always take the Lanai ferry which has daily trips to and from Manele Bay (their terminal is in Lahaina Harbor). The arrival and departure times might be a little inconvenient, but it would be cheaper than flying there. And since you're visiting in Dec., you could get really up close and personal with the humpback whales that frolic off Lahaina.

Miulang

[Surfingfarmboy]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

What you're buying for the extra money to fly into Kapalua instead of OGG is convenience. If time is worth money to you, and you were staying on the Lahaina side, then yes, you would definitely fly into Kapalua because you would completely avoid having to mess with the gridlock that is the pali road.

But if you have all the time in the world, then go for the cheapest fare and keep your fingers crossed. Since the Honoapiilani Hwy seems to get closed down at least once a month now (bad accidents or range fires), people who are mostly visiting the West side might want to fly into Kapalua.

Miulang

I was going to fly into Kapalua precisely to avoid, as you've made reference to, Kahului and the traffic on the Honoapiilani Highway. As I am travelling to West Maui for a single day; (my trip there will not be to visit Lahaina or to engage in the usual tourist attractions), time is somewhat crucial, but not crucial enough to warrent myself buying the much higher fare ticket into Kapalua. I'm going to chance it, and be thankful I have some friends willing to pick me up in Kahului. I don't think traffic should be too bad, at least I'm hoping it's not...I'll be arriving very early on a Monday morning and heading back to Honolulu later in the evening.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

I was going to fly into Kapalua precisely to avoid, as you've made reference to, Kahului and the traffic on the Honoapiilani Highway. As I am travelling to West Maui for a single day; (my trip there will not be to visit Lahaina or to engage in the usual tourist attractions), time is somewhat crucial, but not crucial enough to warrent myself buying the much higher fare ticket into Kapalua. I'm going to chance it, and be thankful I have some friends willing to pick me up in Kahului. I don't think traffic should be too bad, at least I'm hoping it's not...I'll be arriving very early on a Monday morning and heading back to Honolulu later in the evening.

Hint: It'll take at least 1 1/2 hours to get from OGG to Lahaina, barring an accident, because the hours of about 6:00-9 a.m. are peak commute times for people living up country and in Central Maui who have jobs on the west side.

Coming back to Central Maui from Lahaina, expect about the same amount of commute time if travelling between 3 and 6:30 p.m.

Miulang

[aloha-anon]

Maybe you can shed some light on what AQ & HA is trying to do for the local flying public after this debacle is over? If you drive go! out, will the prices go back to what was before?

I can not speak for our airline managements. Try e-mailing one of the CEO's of AQ or HA. I am not trying to evade the question, I am serious. If you get a response, post it here.

Mesa is renown as the worst airline in our nation's skies. I don't care if you fly AQ / HA / WP or float a raft to an outer island, just DONTFLYGO.

Also, when you fly Delta or United or USAir across the mainland, be sure your flight isn't being operated by Mesa / Freedom or Air Midwest (All owned by mesa).

No airline is perfect, but Mesa / go! / Freedom / Air Midwset is the unequivocally the worst.

You're right, AQ & HA will have to do some serious rework on the interisland divisions to change up their game. Using more fuel efficient planes is one component that can change easily. As for union busting, what happened during the bankruptcies? I thought when you are under chapt. 11, you can do just that? To me, I don't see anything different with either airlines before and after the bankruptcies, just shedding some debts and pensions. Is that it? If so, I can almost guarantee fares will be like before without go!.

Haha, even better if all the business reporters, pilots, HT folks can play the game interactively and see who's business model will succeed.

You haven't seen union busting until you seen Mesa union busting. Ornstein takes pride in his ability to whipsaw and divide.

Section six negotiations with Mesa's pilots open up in January and we have already seen a few volleys of shells from both sides.

if you think it was ugly so far you haven't seen anything yet.

Hint: It'll take at least 1 1/2 hours to get from OGG to Lahaina, barring an accident, because the hours of about 6:00-9 a.m. are peak commute times for people living up country and in Central Maui who have jobs on the west side.

Coming back to Central Maui from Lahaina, expect about the same amount of commute time if travelling between 3 and 6:30 p.m.

Miulang

I agree, you are screwed driving on that HWY since the new traffic light went up.

[arturo_h]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Why do you find it your responsibility to tell anyone who or who not to fly? Again, I wonder if you would so against Mesa if they never came to the islands. It's up to the individual person to decide who to fly with. But sometimes people WILL fly with Mesa, even if they the "worst airline in the US" because quite frankly people don't want to spend a fortune on airline tickets and need to save every penny possible. And there are people who don't care about the "bad" service.

One thing I do agree with though is that they definitely need to treat their employees better.

-Arturo

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Why do you find it your responsibility to tell anyone who or who not to fly? Again, I wonder if you would so against Mesa if they never came to the islands.

Agreed, I probably wouldn't be so against them if they never showed up out here, but I avoided Mesa regardless before they ever came to Hawaii. They sucked just as bad 2, 5, 10 years ago as they do today.

[damontucker]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

anyone catch today's Oprah show?

Oprah Winfreys give away show????

Go Airlines gave away 40 r/t tickets to Megan O'Gorman of Chicago, IL so that she could come for "business".... etc... she ended up giving plane tix for the heart sick patients and Go airlines automatically donated 40 more tickets....

Go Airlines just made national major headlines with the Oprah show... Congrats to GO airlines for a great PR piece!

[arturo_h]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

I remember reading articles about that at the beginning of the month (around Nov. 3rd). But I guess the Oprah show aired today:

http://www2.oprah.com/presents/2006/...enge_204.jhtml

KHON:
http://www.khon2.com/news/local/4565121.html

PCB:
http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacif...3/daily36.html