Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

How can that be? Aloha Airlines flies only jet aircraft and they cannot land in or take-off from Kapalua. The runway is too short.

If you mean routes to Kahului, then for sure Island Air is in competition with all local airlines flying to and from Maui's Kahului airport. Many people have opted to fly to Kahului instead of to Kapalua because the fares are better ($19 to $39 depending on the promotion, seat availability and airline). Island Air never matched some of the lowest prices on the same routes... therefore they lost passengers.

This morning's Advertiser article on Island Air.

You got me. I am wondering myself but I checked all the carrier's websites and looked at their flight schedules, not route maps. Aloha listed the Kapalua to Kona and Lihue routes with zero stops. Not unless they are listing Island Air's flights? But I did remember reading somewhere Aloha added some new interisland routes this year.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

You got me. I am wondering myself but I checked all the carrier's websites and looked at their flight schedules, not route maps. Aloha listed the Kapalua to Kona and Lihue routes with zero stops.

Somewhere in the fine print it says those flights are operated by Island Air. I think both Aloha and Hawaiian have some kind of agreement to fly their passengers on Island Air to/from the smaller destinations.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Somewhere in the fine print it says those flights are operated by Island Air. I think both Aloha and Hawaiian have some kind of agreement to fly their passengers on Island Air to/from the smaller destinations.

Hmm, then that is interesting as to why they shut those routes down considering Island Air would have AQ & HA feeding them pax. I'm sure there are pax wanting to fly into Kapalua to avoid the traffic commute to Kahalui.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Hmm, then that is interesting as to why they shut those routes down considering Island Air would have AQ & HA feeding them pax. I'm sure there are pax wanting to fly into Kapalua to avoid the traffic commute to Kahalui.

Island Air was still charging normal fares into Kapalua and it was worth it to use Island Air back when normal fares were being charged in Kahului but with go! and their predatory $19 tickets into Kahului, if you are traveling with a family of four,its a no brainer to just skip the direct flight, rent a car and use the money you saved to upgrade your hotel to a suite or see a show.

This is more evidence against Mesa as the dramas will soon move into the courtrooms with lawsuits being heard starting this April.

It proves exactly what H.E.R.O. has been warning everybody about. Mesa is predatory and not here to increase competition but rather to squash it.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Anyone by any chance know how much were those routes? I can't find out anymore on Island Air's website since they pulled the plug on those routes.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

If you go to Hawaiian Airlines' website @ http://hawaiianair.com/flightinfo/schedules/
and download the PDF interisland schedule, they do show flights to Kapalua and the asterisks point to "partner carrier." The aircraft indicated for those flights are DH8 which means DeHavilland Dash 8 and the only carrier flying that plane in Hawaii is Island Air. They don't have the prices, but I think you can play with the online reservations system and see what the prices are if you try to book (but don't complete if you don't intend to buy).

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

So I tried looking on AQ and HA sites and I found a Kapalua-Lihue flight on AQ with a stop in HNL. One way is $108.

If WP was charging anything close to that for these routes, then it's no wonder they aren't getting any business. Anyone would rather make the trek to Kahalui to get the $39 fare.

I may get flamed for this but in this case, I only would partially blame go! for the problem. I'm not saying WP should have charged $39 for these routes since none of the other three major players were directly competing. But if they were asking anywhere near $108 one way, it's their own fault these routes need to shut down for lack of pax. And indeed, if there's any truth to that, then it reinforces my belief none of the incumbents were ever competitive.


On a side note, AQ is offering $79 one way from HNL to Vegas on 12/6, flt AQ690. If you fly back to HNL on 12/13, flt 691 is only $99. Now please tell me, why is AQ so competitive on US-mainland flights but not interisland? Current $39 or less don't count because AQ is purely being reactive to go!. Once go! disappears, what will interisland fares be again?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

I was at the HA website and they have a special promotion for people who are HA frequent fliers which might be a pretty good deal if you fly interisland frequently (and if you want to fly to the Mainland) within the valid period for the promotion.

For HawaiianMiles Members Only

Now you can earn discounts off flights to any Mainland U.S. city served by Hawaiian Airlines just by flying interisland. The more you fly the more discounts you earn. Earn up to 200% in discounts – that’s 2 FREE roundtrips! Use your discounts as you earn them or accumulate them for bigger savings.

Fly Interisland: Sept. 6, 2006 – May 31, 2007
Earn a 5% discount with every qualifying interisland flight you take on Hawaiian Airlines.

Fly Midnight Madness: Sept. 10, 2006 – June 15, 2007
Use your discounts to travel between the Mainland U.S, and Honolulu.

Miulang

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

So I tried looking on AQ and HA sites and I found a Kapalua-Lihue flight on AQ with a stop in HNL. One way is $108.

If WP was charging anything close to that for these routes, then it's no wonder they aren't getting any business. Anyone would rather make the trek to Kahalui to get the $39 fare.

I may get flamed for this but in this case, I only would partially blame go! for the problem. I'm not saying WP should have charged $39 for these routes since none of the other three major players were directly competing. But if they were asking anywhere near $108 one way, it's their own fault these routes need to shut down for lack of pax. And indeed, if there's any truth to that, then it reinforces my belief none of the incumbents were ever competitive.


On a side note, AQ is offering $79 one way from HNL to Vegas on 12/6, flt AQ690. If you fly back to HNL on 12/13, flt 691 is only $99. Now please tell me, why is AQ so competitive on US-mainland flights but not interisland? Current $39 or less don't count because AQ is purely being reactive to go!. Once go! disappears, what will interisland fares be again?

Don't you find it at least suspicious that the Dash 8 Q-400 is accepted as the most effeciant aircraft to fly on these routes? How could the aircraft with the lowest costs be the first to suffer route and staff reductions?

Go isnt partially to blame but entirely...

On your side note, Aloha manages yields just like any other airline. If they find seats on a flight that are about to "spoil" the only thing to do is blow them out. Dec 6th is this Wednesday!

There is no flight #690 that I have ever flown. I wonder if they are selling sets on an airplane returning from mx heavy check in SAT again. That might be it.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Don't you find it at least suspicious that the Dash 8 Q-400 is accepted as the most effeciant aircraft to fly on these routes? How could the aircraft with the lowest costs be the first to suffer route and staff reductions?

Go isnt partially to blame but entirely...

On your side note, Aloha manages yields just like any other airline. If they find seats on a flight that are about to "spoil" the only thing to do is blow them out. Dec 6th is this Wednesday!

There is no flight #690 that I have ever flown. I wonder if they are selling sets on an airplane returning from mx heavy check in SAT again. That might be it.

What's so suspicious about the Q400 being the most efficient aircraft to fly on these routes? You mean why Island Air chose not to use it since go! came in? They probably figure they didn't have deep enough pockets to saturate the market with more seats from the Q400. But that has nothing to do with the performance of the Q400.

How could the aircraft with the lowest costs be the first to suffer? Again, company not having deep enough pockets to weather this battle. But at the same time, 4/5 routes they pulled makes me believe half that problem lies with themselves in not making the prices of those 4 routes attractive. I will make this statement with a caveat because I can't confirm the price of flying those routes. But if the AQ price quote of $108 one way from Kapalua to Lihue is any indication, then my statement holds merit.

I don't know about #690 being an aircraft returning from a heavy check because they offer the same flight from HNL to Vegas on 12/11 for $99.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

How could the aircraft with the lowest costs be the first to suffer? Again, company not having deep enough pockets to weather this battle.

Bingo! Yahtzee! thats it! If this was a fair fight, Island Air would be able to make the most money with the Q400.

It all supports the case that prices introduced by go! and Mesa are predatory.

I am certain this will be presented as evidence in court this April.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Bingo! Yahtzee! thats it! If this was a fair fight, Island Air would be able to make the most money with the Q400.

It all supports the case that prices introduced by go! and Mesa are predatory.

I am certain this will be presented as evidence in court this April.

Funny how you like to just focus on one issue and one issue only.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Funny how you like to just focus on one issue and one issue only.

It is the key to understanding the entire war, and precisely how and why Mesa will eventually fail.

Just remember that when the Mesa CEO blames Hawaiian and Aloha for all his problems, it was his ego and emotional charge into Hawaii to "teach Aloha a lesson" that got him into this quaqmire in the first place.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

It is the key to understanding the entire war, and precisely how and why Mesa will eventually fail.

Just remember that when the Mesa CEO blames Hawaiian and Aloha for all his problems, it was his ego and emotional charge into Hawaii to "teach Aloha a lesson" that got him into this quaqmire in the first place.

What's to understand? The issue is really plain and simple. Mesa came in with some arrogance, broke confidentiality agreements, and is using it's deep pockets to initiate a fare pricing war. Courts will probably fine Mesa for the confidentiality violations and depending on how Mesa reacts to the fines, they may choose to continue to stay in the Hawaii market or fold and leave.

I think you will have a hard time arguing on the predatory pricing tactic just because the laws are stacked against you on this one, courts have set high hurdles to handle antitrust claims. And when you look around, you see a lot of so called predatory pricing occurring.

But your rhetoric on Mesa is starting to sound like a broken record because you selectively avoid any discussion on what the incumbents can do to improve themselves. Mesa is really just one issue with the interisland market. There's more than one prob with this market.

[Miulang]

Pacific Wings

While the big boys duke it out for the main interisland traffic, little Pacific Wings has quietly been going about its business of providing air service to the tiny towns of Hana, Kalaupapa and Kamuela.

To guarantee air service for those tiny communities, the federal government provides subsidies to the airlines that fly into the towns, and Pacific Wings has had the contract to be the sole carrier.

Now, Pacific Wings has decided to give up the subsidy but will still fly into the 3 communities on a commercial basis. Since they will no longer be the sole dedicated carrier, could this open up the market to Mokulele, flying as go!Express? Would there be enough demand to have more than one company flying into Hana, for instance? If not, it means that for the convenience of having regularly scheduled flights, people in those communities will have to pay much higher fares because there is no government subsidy any longer (as of next month).

Miulang

P.S. the story says the owners of Pacific Wings originally wanted to get into code sharing agreements with other carriers, but then decided against it. I wonder if they were talking to go! prior to go!s arrangements with Mokulele?