Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

While the actions of the maintenance company got all the bad rap, the truth was, the maintenance schedule for inspection and lubrication had been extended a few times from the original specification. It had been extended too far.

Death by small changes.

And for awhile after that investigation, Alaska was the safest airline to fly!

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

II am not loyal to either Hawaiian or Aloha. I know people who work for both but none of them are family or even really good friends. I like Hawaiian to the mainland but I think Alohas 737's are better for inter-island. I met a Aloha mechanic once at La Marianas who explained to me how the Aloha 737s are highly modified to take a serious beating and the problem now will never be metal fatigue again. Apparently Aloha uses so much metal reinforcement that now they are too heavy and just burn way too much fuel. Those old 737's might be extremely loud and burn way too much fuel but they are built like tanks. I like lots of metal around me when I fly. Not tin foil like those Canadaian pieces of junk that fall out of the sky into peoples back yards.

Highly modified AQ 737s? Care to add more details? Are these modifications approved by Boeing? Because that could actually decrease the air worthiness of a plane if modifications drastically alter the original design of the plane. I highly doubt there are any modifications as AQ these days are frequently swapping 737s.

If you only like metal, then I'm afraid you might need to stop flying in the near future as the A380, A350, and 787s come online to replace existing planes. They aren't even tin foil as you put them.

The concorde crash was caused by a part that fell off a CO DC10 4 min prior on the runway. So how is parts falling off a plane Mesa specific?

[Star of Gladness]

Alaska Air still flies a few MD-80+s...and one of them crashed on a flight between Mexico and California about 7 years ago. The NTSB determined that a part in the tail assembly (the horizontal stabilizer trim system jackscrew assembly’s acme nut threads) failed. They blamed the failure on poor maintenance. Around that time, Alaska had just started outsourcing their aircraft maintenance to an outside vendor. The MD80/90 series had quite a few production flaws and incidents, even while being called one of the planes with the safest flying record, probably because of the large numbers that were sold/leased to the major carriers during its production run.

you are correct. The Boeing 717 Hawaiian now flys was in fact going to be the MD-95 until that buyout/merger.

Not completely true. They are designed to shed engines in the event of catastrophic failure. Beats tearing off a wing.

Oh, and the part fell off a United Express, not a Mesa jet.

They say most people don't read most news stories past the title and the first and last paragraph. So I know its not your fault that you missed the sixth paragraph.

A spokesman for Mesa Air Group, which operated the flight for United, declined to comment yesterday other than to say an investigation is ongoing.

So about the uncontained engine failures, I had not heard about that. So I googled "uncontained engine failure" and guess what came up again.

yep, Mesa Airlines. It appears they had one over Colorado back in January! http://cbs4denver.com/traffic/local_...031192929.html

(AP) DENVER One of two jet engines on an America West Express flight carrying 50 passengers broke down and showered debris into the air over Colorado last week, but the plane returned to the Denver airport and landed safely, federal investigators said Wednesday.

The National Transportation Safety Board said it was investigating the Jan. 25 incident involving a Mesa Airlines Bombardier CL-600-2B19 Challenger operating as America West Express Flight 2985 from Denver to Phoenix.

I dont know. You got anything else aviation related you want me to search for on the net? This is kind of spooky already. Even I am getting a little freaked out here.

Highly modified AQ 737s? Care to add more details? Are these modifications approved by Boeing? Because that could actually decrease the air worthiness of a plane if modifications drastically alter the original design of the plane. I highly doubt there are any modifications as AQ these days are frequently swapping 737s.

If you only like metal, then I'm afraid you might need to stop flying in the near future as the A380, A350, and 787s come online to replace existing planes. They aren't even tin foil as you put them.

The concorde crash was caused by a part that fell off a CO DC10 4 min prior on the runway. So how is parts falling off a plane Mesa specific?

He said something about the landing gear on their 737's being the toughest in the world. It costs them like $3 million just to retrofit them to Hawaii standards. For $3MIL I doubt it is portagee job but the FAA phone number is in thephone book if you are concerned.

Also while you have them on the phone, ask them why go! leaves their flaps out after landing since no other airplane does that and try and find out for us why the cowling on one of their jets is a different color? What happened to the original cowling? Let us know what they say please. Shoots.

how is parts falling off a plane Mesa specific?

Why is the cowling on one of the go! jets a different color now? I dont see any other operation in Hawaii with dirrent color parts on them. They could pay me $39 and I would still rather not fly on them.

MESA stock is down another 7% today. $4.86 with no bottom in sight. Wait,.... $4.85 now.

check out what the investors are saying! http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/mb/MESA

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

They say most people don't read most news stories past the title and the first and last paragraph. So I know its not your fault that you missed the sixth paragraph.

A spokesman for Mesa Air Group, which operated the flight for United, declined to comment yesterday other than to say an investigation is ongoing.

So about the uncontained engine failures, I had not heard about that. So I googled "uncontained engine failure" and guess what came up again.

yep, Mesa Airlines. It appears they had one over Colorado back in January! http://cbs4denver.com/traffic/local_...031192929.html

(AP) DENVER One of two jet engines on an America West Express flight carrying 50 passengers broke down and showered debris into the air over Colorado last week, but the plane returned to the Denver airport and landed safely, federal investigators said Wednesday.

The National Transportation Safety Board said it was investigating the Jan. 25 incident involving a Mesa Airlines Bombardier CL-600-2B19 Challenger operating as America West Express Flight 2985 from Denver to Phoenix.

I dont know. You got anything else aviation related you want me to search for on the net? This is kind of spooky already. Even I am getting a little freaked out here.

Indeed most people don't read past the title and the first and last paragraph. Like in your own link regarding parts falling off the engine.

According to NTSB records, a Bombardier CL-600-2B19 operated by PSA Airlines experienced a similar problem on Oct. 17, 2005, while climbing near West Grove, Pa.

The plane's left-engine exhaust nozzle and fairing fell off due to "inadequately designed attachment hardware," the NTSB's probable cause report said.

Sounds like a manufacturer design issue.

He said something about the landing gear on their 737's being the toughest in the world. It costs them like $3 million just to retrofit them to Hawaii standards. For $3MIL I doubt it is portagee job but the FAA phone number is in thephone book if you are concerned.

Also while you have them on the phone, ask them why go! leaves their flaps out after landing since no other airplane does that and try and find out for us why the cowling on one of their jets is a different color? What happened to the original cowling? Let us know what they say please. Shoots.

So AQ's landing gears are even tougher than any 737-200s with the unpaved strip kit? Interesting.....considering there's no unpaved landings I am aware that AQ does.

http://www.b737.org.uk/unpavedstripkit.htm

If the flap issue is such a huge detriment, why hasn't the FAA pushed harder on a fix? As for different cowling, is that really freaking you out? A cowling is essentially a non-moving part. There are countless airlines with their planes with a part that didn't quite fit the paint scheme. Check out airliners.net, you'll be able to find some there.

http://airliners.net/discussions/gen...nair#ID3536581

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...ext_id=1245942

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

Indeed most people don't read past the title and the first and last paragraph. Like in your own link regarding parts falling off the engine.

According to NTSB records, a Bombardier CL-600-2B19 operated by PSA Airlines experienced a similar problem on Oct. 17, 2005, while climbing near West Grove, Pa.

The plane's left-engine exhaust nozzle and fairing fell off due to "inadequately designed attachment hardware," the NTSB's probable cause report said.

Sounds like a manufacturer design issue.

So AQ's landing gears are even tougher than any 737-200s with the unpaved strip kit? Interesting.....considering there's no unpaved landings I am aware that AQ does.

http://www.b737.org.uk/unpavedstripkit.htm

So you must have an inside source at the NTSB then! When I type in the N number in their database the investigation is still in its preliminary phase. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...31X00119&key=1
Either way, manufacturing or maintenance, i still don't want to fly in the little death traps.

BTW, some AQ airplanes **DO** have the unpaved strip kit. Many of the recent "newer" 200's Aloha bought are the old Alaska Airlines "mud hens" that did the Alaska bush flying and already had the gravel kits. Still not tough enough apparently. http://hnlrarebirds.blogspot.com/200...as-n841al.html
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/A...story-b737.htm

The old JT8's are virtually indestructible. I also remember they can handle birdstrikes like no other. Newer CFM's need a boroscope at a bare minimum if they suck in a single bird. Thats several hours of work at the minimum. The JT8 is good after a visual inspection of the fan blades. 5 minutes max.

Boeings sales records further prove the 737 is the best selling aircraft of all time.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

Lord have mercy! Mesa is at $4.49 now! Down 30% in the last 10 days. Falling like a shooting star. joshuatree when will you see the light?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

Short interview with Ornstein, published last month.

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

Here's what we do:

HA is our first choice of travel regardless of location because overall we've had a positive experience.

AQ would be our second choice, however while making travel plans it seems their prices are always a few dollars more than HA.

During our annual trips to Maui, we fly to JHM and patron Island Air. Always a good experience, however a lot more expensive than if we flew into OGG, on either Island Air or any other airlines, but JHM is located minutes from our accomodations, and the convenience is worth the extra money.

go!'s promotions have made us feel it's more of an 'impulse' buy rather than convenient for our planned trip.

Wasn't there some discussion during Lingle's first term about getting some kind of approval for Hawaii's air routes to be consider interstate highways?

[oceanpacific]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

HAWAIIAN has normally been my first choice as they have assigned seating. But, they have less flights at my desired times. Have flown HA on just one RT the past twelve months.

ALOHA is my second choice. They have more flights and more affordable pricing across the board. Nine RTs over the past twelve months.

I have never flown GO!, although I appreciate their market presence in driving down air fares. Their limitation on luggage is a disadvantage - the others allow more pieces.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

So you must have an inside source at the NTSB then! When I type in the N number in their database the investigation is still in its preliminary phase. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...31X00119&key=1
Either way, manufacturing or maintenance, i still don't want to fly in the little death traps.

BTW, some AQ airplanes **DO** have the unpaved strip kit. Many of the recent "newer" 200's Aloha bought are the old Alaska Airlines "mud hens" that did the Alaska bush flying and already had the gravel kits. Still not tough enough apparently. http://hnlrarebirds.blogspot.com/200...as-n841al.html
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/A...story-b737.htm

The old JT8's are virtually indestructible. I also remember they can handle birdstrikes like no other. Newer CFM's need a boroscope at a bare minimum if they suck in a single bird. Thats several hours of work at the minimum. The JT8 is good after a visual inspection of the fan blades. 5 minutes max.

Boeings sales records further prove the 737 is the best selling aircraft of all time.

No inside source, just merely quoting the contents of the very link you provided.

I did not say no AQ planes had gravel kits. What I said is the supposed AQ modifications per your posts (with no links to back it up) is supposedly stronger than even gravel kits on certain 737-200s? I really doubt that because I'm not aware of any interisland flight landing on an unpaved runway.

Lord have mercy! Mesa is at $4.49 now! Down 30% in the last 10 days. Falling like a shooting star. joshuatree when will you see the light?

See what light? I've been disputing your chicken little posts that every mechanical issue is Mesa/go's fault when the issues seem to be more of a manufacturer issue. And other issues like a different color cowling are issues other numerous airlines occasionally encounter, again, nothing Mesa/go specific. Will these little details help take the stock down? Sure it will but it's their management and staff retention issues that are the main drag on their stock. Go through my posts, you will not find a single thing where I dispute this. If you can't separate the issues, it's not my fault.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

No inside source, just merely quoting the contents of the very link you provided.

That was intended to be sarcasm. I really dont think you have an inside source with the NTSB. I do however suspect your devotion to go! I doubt you work for them otherwise you would join the anti-go! folks. Let me guess, they gave you free tickets for something? I hear they dump tons of free seats on the market to Help boost their failing load factors.

I did not say no AQ planes had gravel kits.

Oh you absolutely did! You said Aloha's airplanes were NOT as tough as others WITH the strip kit. You pre determined Aloha did NOT have them. This is what you said.

So AQ's landing gears are even tougher than any 737-200s with the unpaved strip kit? Interesting.....considering there's no unpaved landings I am aware that AQ does.

http://www.b737.org.uk/unpavedstripkit.htm

Aloha used to fly the 737-200's into Midway Island, Johnston, Majuro, Christmas. Some of these strips are indeed UNPAVED coral road base and not to mention the albatross will not only destroy an engine they can also kill the pilot if taken on the winsdshield. Very tough conditions. Much tougher than a little slush and mud.

What I said is the supposed AQ modifications per your posts (with no links to back it up) is supposedly stronger than even gravel kits on certain 737-200s? I really doubt that because I'm not aware of any interisland flight landing on an unpaved runway.

See what light? I've been disputing your chicken little posts that every mechanical issue is Mesa/go's fault when the issues seem to be more of a manufacturer issue. And other issues like a different color cowling are issues other numerous airlines occasionally encounter, again, nothing Mesa/go specific. Will these little details help take the stock down? Sure it will but it's their management and staff retention issues that are the main drag on their stock. Go through my posts, you will not find a single thing where I dispute this. If you can't separate the issues, it's not my fault.

Whatever.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Excellent posts Star!

I can also add to the statistics re: the recent slump in Mesa's shares. While Mesa closed today about where it opened, at one point they had lost another 7% easily making their 4 year record low. While Mesa ended the day a small loss, many airlines were winners today.

Allegiant was up about 1% to 30.18, Alaska was up 3% to 22.24, AMR was up 5% to 22.20, Continental rocked and rolled its way up a nice 9% to 28.82, Delta was up 1% to 15.76, Frontier was up 1.5% to 5.34, JetBlue was up 3% to 9.16, US Airways was up 4% to 26.64, Northwest was up 4% to 15.50, Republic was up 2% to 18.50, SkyWest was up 6% to 24.14, United was up 1% to 38.40, and ExpressJet shares were up a nice 7% to 4.12.

Mesa is down a solid 36% since June 21st 2007 when MU won his lawsuit that following Monday. The Mesa pilots soon announced their problems with management, the "Mass Exodus, Low Morale" billboards were next. Wall street downgrades to "strong sell" were fuel to the already raging fire, yet JO still has time for this vanity piece in Hawaii Business Magazine. Speaking of vanities, take a look at the poll in that article. 56% are voting NO GO! tonight. And we all know how Mesa likes to stuff polls with straw votes. Remember the Star Bulletin Poll Mesa tried to hijack?

Finally Mesa is down almost 65% since February 10, 2006 when Mesa announced they were serious about go! and started sending airplanes out here. 65%!!!

It's amazing JO still has a job. I think they will make a movie about this one day it has been amazing the BS that has been shoveled around Mesa the past year especially. I am dumbfounded.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 3

That was intended to be sarcasm. I really dont think you have an inside source with the NTSB. I do however suspect your devotion to go! I doubt you work for them otherwise you would join the anti-go! folks. Let me guess, they gave you free tickets for something? I hear they dump tons of free seats on the market to Help boost their failing load factors.

Okay, guess I should have gotten the sarcasm from simple black and white lettering with no quotes, no italics, no bold, no emoticons.

Oh yeah, I have yet to take a trip with go! Any other accusations you want to toss my way?

Oh you absolutely did! You said Aloha's airplanes were NOT as tough as others WITH the strip kit. You pre determined Aloha did NOT have them. This is what you said.

No I didn't, saying Aloha's planes were not as tough as others with a strip kit does not equal to saying Aloha has no planes with a strip kit. Considering your original claims is that Aloha has these highly modified planes, as you put them, I have no idea what the mods are. In fact, you didn't even bring up strip kits till I did so why is your story continuously changing?

Aloha used to fly the 737-200's into Midway Island, Johnston, Majuro, Christmas. Some of these strips are indeed UNPAVED coral road base and not to mention the albatross will not only destroy an engine they can also kill the pilot if taken on the winsdshield. Very tough conditions. Much tougher than a little slush and mud.

Midway, Johnston, Majuro, Christmas all have paved runways. Johnston closed in 2004.

Whatever.

Indeed.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Today Go is selling tickets for $25 each way interisland. Hawaiian has matched. One day sale, travel now to Sept. 30.

Competition is a good thing.... prices have once again gone down from the standard, new basic discount price of $39.

Enjoy the ride.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Star, Joshua

I do not know of any "highly modified" airplanes at Aloha. I think Joshua said that though, not Star... I can tell you however we do upgrade the APU's to much more reliable, cooler models for our fleet. The original 737-200 APU isn't strong enough to cool the cabins on the quick flights with full loads of tourists. I also heard today that Alaska has decided to contract with the best shop in the Pacific for Boeing maintainence.

So if you ever see Eskimos on the tails of any aircraft in the Aloha hangar now you know.