Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

[oggboy]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Cuz my fuddah live on Moloka'i, and he ain't getting younger.

Now, if your next reply implies I should go home ...

No, you can stay where you at....My wifes family live on Molokai, Kapaakea....

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

I still see go! flights with their flaps down while they are parked. I remember this being a problem for 50 seat CRJ's for a long time but it just made the newspapers this week.

I guess the problems are getting worse. The CRJ can not only handle airline ops in Hawaii but anywhere on Earth it appears. This has got to be murder on any airlines dispatch reliability.

Mesa's CEO keeps reporting high 90% dispatch numbers. Either they have found a way to fix this problem before any other airline or they are lying about the problem.

Yesterdays local headlines suggest they are better at the latter.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070829/bomba...fety.html?.v=3

FAA Safety Order for Bombardier Jets
Wednesday August 29, 4:19 pm ET
By Dan Caterinicchia, AP Business Writer
FAA, Canadian Authorities Issue Safety Mandates for Bombardier Jets After Wing Problems

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. and Canadian aviation regulators have ordered Bombardier Inc. to address wing malfunctions on certain jets flown by regional carriers such as Air Wisconsin and SkyWest Inc. (and Mesa's go!)

An FAA spokeswoman said while the flap problems are potentially unsafe, there was no immediate danger, which is why the company was given between 30 and 120 days from the effective date to make the required changes.


The required changes won't have a material impact on Bombardier's bottom line and a complete redesign of the flaps is being developed, company officials said.


The affected Bombardier regional jets hold roughly 50 people.

[Random]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Then I should be relieved go! Express is not using Bombardier for the Moloka'i flight route service.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Just in case anyone missed it.

Go is having a $9 ticket sale today.

Hawaiian and Aloha matched.

Prices are good on select flights now to Dec. 31.

Got my $9 R/T on Hawaiian this morning. Going to have turkey with my family on the Big Island. I had booked Christmas during an earlier promotion. Hawaiian too.

Thanks Go, for making the skies affordable. Competition is good.

Sale ends today at midnight. Still have time if there are flights.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Just in case anyone missed it.

Go is having a $9 ticket sale today.

Hawaiian and Aloha matched.

Prices are good on select flights now to Dec. 31.

Got my $9 R/T on Hawaiian this morning. Going to have turkey with my family on the Big Island. I had booked Christmas during an earlier promotion. Hawaiian too.

Thanks Go, for making the skies affordable. Competition is good.

Mel, you and I both know have known all along this isn't about competition. This is a hostile and elaborate predatory pricing conspiracy to take control of Hawaii's airlines by force. The truth will be revealed sooner than any of us think. You and the rest of Hawaii have been taken as suckers by go!. You have been used by Mesa as pawns in their conspiracy. I hope you blog about it ASAP once the truth is made public.

Aloha.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

The rest of the article is HERE http://starbulletin.com/2007/08/31/business/story03.html

Thank you go! for destroying evidence and making the lawyers in Hawaii rich with multiple lawsuits! Thank you go! for making this the easiest slam dunk in predatory pricing case law history!

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Mel, you and I both know have known all along this isn't about competition. This is a hostile and elaborate predatory pricing conspiracy to take control of Hawaii's airlines by force.

In your myopic Aloha Airlines world it is predatory. Judging by how busy the websites were and how many $9 flights were offered and sold out today, as I have mentioned several times, the public doesn't care much. It is price, price, price, price.

Thanks to Go for bringing the prices down in the market across the board, I and many others like me who are price sensitive and resented the two incumbent airlines for jacking the prices way up before June 2006, we now have had the opportunity to travel more times between the islands this and last year then we did before.

Certainly the prices are not forever, but as I have said many times "enjoy the ride." I am certain many people are.

I was thanked by some of the users at my Twitter website when I announced that there was a $9 sale today. People get excited by sales.

And that's what these price reductions are... a special sale price good for only a limited time. Just like when stuff goes on sale at WalMart, Long's Drug or anywhere else.

Hawaii continues to have the highest cost of living the United States and the taxpayer citizens in this state are smart enough to know when a great bargain comes knocking on their door.

It's all for now and we'll worry and adjust to the high prices later after the courts or the airlines kill one or the other. And most adjustments will mean flying less as we did before.

People on this very board other than myself are happy and have flown many times at reduced prices. So far there are only 2 or maybe 3 people who seem to be opposed to lower prices around here. And one of them don't even live in this state.

I'm sure you and the Star guy will be trumpeting as loudly as a bunch of Kauai Superferry radical opponents if and when Go loses its court case. So be it. Until then, I'll enjoy the ride... on Hawaiian... remember that! Not Go!

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

In your myopic Aloha Airlines world it is predatory.

I'm sure you and the Star guy will be trumpeting as loudly as a bunch of Kauai Superferry radical opponents if and when Go loses its court case. So be it. Until then, I'll enjoy the ride... on Hawaiian... remember that! Not Go!

In this mornings Advertiser...

Smoking gun found...

Aloha Airlines said in court documents that a Mainland airline industry consultant played a pivotal role in an alleged effort by Mesa Air Group to drive Aloha out of business.
Morris Garfinkle, president of Arlington, Va.-based GCW Consulting, served as Mesa's consultant when it launched interisland airline go! in June 2006.

In an Aug. 22 legal filing, attorneys for Aloha said that Garfinkle relied on "stolen" business records to devise go!'s low fares, which were allegedly designed to drive the state's No. 2 airline out of business.

"During the discovery process, Aloha located documents prepared by or sent to Mr. Garfinkle that establish Mr. Garfinkle as a central figure and a guiding force in Mesa's scheme to drive Aloha out of the interisland markets," wrote Nathan Vitan, a Washington, D.C.-based attorney working for Aloha.

"Mr. Garfinkle engineered the predatory pricing scheme and used the stolen confidential information to do so. He committed both of these wrongdoings."

And don't forget last week Hawaiian presented proof of evidence destruction by the same family of Mesa "executives".

The Hawaiian hearing on September 25th is promising to be a real dog and pony show.

My friends, we have a criminal orginazation loose in Hawaii.

I agree with you Mel, enjoy the ride, just dont fly go!

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

http://starbulletin.com/2007/08/31/b...s/story03.html

However, he added that if Hawaiian prevails in the lawsuit, "it will cost the consumers of Hawaii hundreds of millions of dollars."

What exactly does that mean? Is HA seeking a govt bailout or are they suing the state?

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

http://starbulletin.com/2007/08/31/b...s/story03.html

However, he added that if Hawaiian prevails in the lawsuit, "it will cost the consumers of Hawaii hundreds of millions of dollars."

What exactly does that mean? Is HA seeking a govt bailout or are they suing the state?

Remember the above quoted has been called a LIAR by the SEC and Forbes Magazine. What he meant to say is it will cost HIM hundreds of millions of dollars. Mesa is on the hook for these 100's of millions Jonathan Ornstein is so worried about.

Read the last two paragraphs of this article for the truth. http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...610140314.html

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Star Bulletin is reporting Aloha's losses widen to $43 million which is greater than the $41.5 million that Aloha lost in all of 2006.

The Honolulu Star Bulletin is also reminding everybody that Hawaiian is going to get their day in court next Tuesday, September 25th.

Meanwhile, the rumor mill has Mesa supposed to launch Kunpeng airlines in China yesterday but the first aircraft is reportedly still broken and/or missing paperwork in Anchorage Alaska.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

...Meanwhile, the rumor mill has Mesa supposed to launch Kunpeng airlines in China yesterday but the first aircraft is reportedly still broken and/or missing paperwork in Anchorage Alaska.

According to their website, the first plane arrived in X'ian yesterday (pics on the Mesa Air Group website).

Miulang

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Hawaiian vs Mesa pre-trial filings this week...

Much of the filings are either 'redacted' or 'filed under seal'. It is possible that non-parties may be excluded from the courtroom during the testimony of certain witnesses.

The parties have filed a slough of 'motions in limine'. These are hearing-related motions that allow the Judge to set the parameters for what can and cannot be introduced as evidence at trial, which witnesses will testify, and in which order, etc.

Some key motions that were recently decided:

1. HAL may use evidence from the Aloha v. Mesa trial over Mesa's objection. (Garfinkle's recent depo?)
   
2. Hearing to determine if Mesa should be sanctioned for 'spoilage' of evidence will be heard FIRST, before the trial. -- HAL has accused Mesa of shredding/ deleting relevant documents. -- The judge said that the ruling on this motion will be postponed until after the trial. (Probably to determine if the evidence would have been relevant or not.)
   
3. Garfinkle and Wang moved to exclude testimony that would prove damages for their conduct. Those motions were denied.
   
4. Garfinkle moved to 'bifurcate' (separate) the trial into two different trials was denied 'without prejudice'. This means that the motion may be filed again. This indicates that Mesa and Garfinkle may indeed have competing interests. If they start pointing the finger at each other the judge may have to bifurcate and try the two parties separately.
   
5. Mesa wanted to use a report for its defense entitled "Analyzing the Impact of Anti-trust Immunity: Price Effects Following the Aloha-Hawaiian Anti-Trust Agreement" written by Rene Kamita and referred to as the "Kamita Report". The motion by HAL to exclude this document was partially granted. Mesa intends to present an expert witness who will apparently argue that "no rational airline would enter the Hawaii market without looking at HAL's confidential information."

So this is going to be the backbone of Mesa's defense... http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=847964

What do you think Mel? I am no attorney but if this is Mesa's only defense and the Judge isn't going to allow it anyway I would say they are SCREWED.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

What do you think Mel? I am no attorney but if this is Mesa's only defense and the Judge isn't going to allow it anyway I would say they are SCREWED.

I'm no attorney either and we'll just leave it up to the courts. Aloha is already screwed since they reported that big loss... so what? If prices go up, demand will go down and the people of Hawaii are screwed by the 2 remaining airlines until somebody else comes in.

You want a duopoly that charges high prices to protect your job at Aloha, then that is what you and us are going to get. Then the 2 airlines can SCREW US again and a new chapter of this ongoing thread will start and we'll all be complaining about the high $115+ one way interisland airfares that you want us to pay no matter what airline is flying in the skies. Back to 2005 we go. Damn you!

I like my low prices and most other people do. We do not give a damn rat's ass which airline is offering. If one is offering $39 or less tickets and the others don't want to play, then we flock to the cheap seats. If all want to play, then we flock to the cheap seats that are open on whatever airline has them. Low prices and competition do not cultivate brand loyalty.

And guess what? High prices do not command brand loyalty either and we all cut back on flying and the airlines will continue to lose money again like they did when only 2 of them were flying post 9-11 to June 2006 with their high ass prices. And we cut back and airlines file for Chapter 11 or maybe even Chapter 7... or they may do the dastardly thing again and try to merge.. and of course that will get the attention of the legislature real fast as it did a few years ago when that attempt was last tried.

So the bottom line Mr. Aloha Anon, is a damned if you do, and damned if you don't. And in the end we're all screwed but for now while the low prices are still around ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!!!!!

Remember this, I'm not the only one singing the praises of the low prices Go has offered us in the marketplace:

Interisland airfare wars benefit student boarders

Airline price wars, Superferry blockades, island residents pitted against one another, temporary restraining orders -- interisland transportation has never been so entertaining.

This odd condition of chaos and pandemonium in which the state finds itself has been a boon to Kamehameha Schools' boarders who are taking advantage of the battles that have resulted in lower interisland fares. Boarders can see their families more often, and visitation dates are not limited to those scheduled on the school calendar.

"I think the price drops are wonderful! It allows more family time for our boarders," said Charmain Wong, director of boarding.

According to Kamehameha's Admissions Office, there are close to 500 boarders and their families who can benefit from the low fares from the islands of Hawaii, Maui and Kauai.

Last June, when go! airlines entered the market with a $19 promotional fare, the interisland fares of Aloha and Hawaiian dropped to match their new competition. And it is go! that is keeping interisland travel affordable.

"My mom bought four round-trip tickets." senior boarder Kalena Makanui said. "I don't really go home that much except on common weekends, so it's really nice to be able to go home."

Again it doesn't matter what airline, Hawaii residents like affordable flying. $39 or less is affordable. $115 is not.

Lastly all of my discount flights taken or booked this year were/are on Hawaiian. But I thank Go for having the prices go down since AQ and HA want to play the price game too. And that helps Hawaii's overtaxed and cash strapped consumers.

And because of your constant harping on this I am going to make sure I never fly Aloha after the prices go up beyond $39. There!

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

oh come on now mel.

You will quickly forget my posts and fly the cheapest airline to save a nickel if that airline be Hawaiian or Aloha or Air Thai or Value jet. By your own admission all you care about is PRICE. Forget about the ethics involved. YOU SAVED ANOTHER NICKEL.

Right?

I am not trying to offend you so don't take it personal Mel. I have decided you are a very nice guy and not much different from other travelers, but you won't win this argument anymore than Mesa will win in Court. It's not your fault. Defending Mesa is not going to be easy for anybody. This isn't your fight. You are an innocent bystander.

Ignore me if you must or debate me till the end. Either way I will be posting every single docket from the HAL vs Mesa trial here and I assure you NONE of it will be good news for Mesa.

I'm no attorney either and we'll just leave it up to the courts. Aloha is already screwed since they reported that big loss... so what? If prices go up, demand will go down and the people of Hawaii are screwed by the 2 remaining airlines until somebody else comes in.

You want a duopoly that charges high prices to protect your job at Aloha, then that is what you and us are going to get. Then the 2 airlines can SCREW US again and a new chapter of this ongoing thread will start and we'll all be complaining about the high $115+ one way interisland airfares that you want us to pay no matter what airline is flying in the skies. Back to 2005 we go. Damn you!

I like my low prices and most other people do. We do not give a damn rat's ass which airline is offering. If one is offering $39 or less tickets and the others don't want to play, then we flock to the cheap seats. If all want to play, then we flock to the cheap seats that are open on whatever airline has them. Low prices and competition do not cultivate brand loyalty.

And guess what? High prices do not command brand loyalty either and we all cut back on flying and the airlines will continue to lose money again like they did when only 2 of them were flying post 9-11 to June 2006 with their high ass prices. And we cut back and airlines file for Chapter 11 or maybe even Chapter 7... or they may do the dastardly thing again and try to merge.. and of course that will get the attention of the legislature real fast as it did a few years ago when that attempt was last tried.

So the bottom line Mr. Aloha Anon, is a damned if you do, and damned if you don't. And in the end we're all screwed but for now while the low prices are still around ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!!!!!

Remember this, I'm not the only one singing the praises of the low prices Go has offered us in the marketplace:



Again it doesn't matter what airline, Hawaii residents like affordable flying. $39 or less is affordable. $115 is not.

Lastly all of my discount flights taken or booked this year were/are on Hawaiian. But I thank Go for having the prices go down since AQ and HA want to play the price game too. And that helps Hawaii's overtaxed and cash strapped consumers.

And because of your constant harping on this I am going to make sure I never fly Aloha after the prices go up beyond $39. There!