Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

You're right, Leo. I have Likanui on ignore and will continue to do so. So he can keep asking his rhetorical questions all he wants. He will not get a direct answer from me.
(...)
I brought up the fate of the Spirit of Ontario because it proves that if HSF can't make a go of it in Hawai'i, it can still be used elsewhere.

BUSTED.
If -- IF -- you had me on Ignore, you could NOT POSSIBLY have known that I asked you why you brought up the Ontario ferry!!!! NOBODY ELSE MENTIONED IT. Just me. Yet you just answered my question from a post you falsely claimed to have ignored.
BUSTED.

Admit the truth. You just continue to refuse to reply to honest questions after you post nonsense.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

BUSTED.
If -- IF -- you had me on Ignore, you could NOT POSSIBLY have known that I asked you why you brought up the Ontario ferry!!!! NOBODY ELSE MENTIONED IT. Just me. Yet you just answered my question from a post you falsely claimed to have ignored.
BUSTED.

Well, it's possible that she ignored your initial posts, but then, after I quoted your post asking why she hadn't answered you, she went back to "open" those posts originally ignored - it's easy to do.

Maybe we can keep this discussion going at a slightly lower level of blood-pressure? I'm finding this to be an incredibly educational thread, presenting a lot of perspectives, links and opinions (not just facts) I haven't found anywhere else.

If we can keep it on the topic and not so personal, I know that would be helpful to me (but others may have a different view on that, I realize.) It's one thing to ask another poster to back up their statements with additional information - quite another to just accuse them of being irrelevant, because you don't happen to like their p.o.v.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Well, it's possible that she ignored your initial posts, but then, after I quoted your post asking why she hadn't answered you, she went back to "open" those posts originally ignored - it's easy to do.

That's exactly what I did. Otherwise, somebody would still be whistling in the wind.

BTW: The Maui Superferry hearings on Akaku (live feed) are very educational. They just questioned the traffic engineer who testified for the DOT that the impacts on traffic would be minimal, although those getting off the ferry might have to wait through more than one traffic cycle to get into the main stream of traffic on Kaahumanu and Puunene Aves. The sucky thing (besides the jittery recording) is that they aren't archiving all of this for posterity.

Miulang

[zztype]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Fire Ants infestation grows

http://starbulletin.com/2007/09/18/news/story10.html



Or is it a mis-print? Maybe they are quoting somebody but it doesnt seem they are. Am I missing something? I dont want my dogs going blind!

So what? The ants not goin’ hitch a ride on Young Brothers’ barges? None are going to get on an airplane in someone’s bag, no?

Where the heck did they come from? Uh, how the heck did they get here in the first place? SuperFerry?

[Creative-1]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

No one answered my question yesterday, so I'm repeating it: Does anyone know if moving passengers by plane uses more fuel and releases more carbon than moving them by ship?

Rep. Kirk Caldwell spoke to my Rotary club today and I asked him the same question. He said Jeff Mikulina chastised him for supporting the HSF, and he chastised him back saying planes have more impact per passenger than ferries.

He went on to say he didn't have any numbers, but that it was his hunch

A visitor from Vancouver stood up and said he didn't understand what all the fuss was about. They have over 25 ferries from Seattle to Vancouver and a lot more marine wildlife.

They've operated for decades and no one worries about the environmental impact, he said.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I'm just posting an idle-kine post here. Due to the fact that I am unduly pissed off by the proceedings I request that I be awakened when it is all over.

Aloha and if I don't see you before the Holidays please have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. And a Blessed Hanukkah, too, if it applies. Oh what the heck---Feliz Kwanzaa!

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Well, it's possible that she ignored your initial posts, but then, after I quoted your post asking why she hadn't answered you, she went back to "open" those posts originally ignored - it's easy to do.

Maybe we can keep this discussion going at a slightly lower level of blood-pressure? I'm finding this to be an incredibly educational thread, presenting a lot of perspectives, links and opinions (not just facts) I haven't found anywhere else.

If we can keep it on the topic and not so personal, I know that would be helpful to me (but others may have a different view on that, I realize.) It's one thing to ask another poster to back up their statements with additional information - quite another to just accuse them of being irrelevant, because you don't happen to like their p.o.v.

I second all of that, Leo Lakio. At my ever-advancing age, I need all the low blood pressure I can muster.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

No one answered my question yesterday, so I'm repeating it: Does anyone know if moving passengers by plane uses more fuel and releases more carbon than moving them by ship?

Nova did a program about calculating the amount of fuel used by various types of jets awhile back (when DC-10s were still in service). If you want to do the calculations yourself, this worksheet provides all the information you need. Obviously, the next generation of planes (the newer 737s, 767s, 777s and 787's all would be more fuel efficient, the 787 in particular because of its all-composite body).

And from Ian Lind's column a couple of weeks ago, was this Superferry fuel consumption analysis from one of his readers, along with a couple of caveats:

Based on data from the Austal and MTU websites (MTU manufactures the diesel engines that power the ship), here’s what I figured out:

Superferry engines.
Four MTU 20V 8000 M70 diesels.

Total power: 44,000 HP (32,810 kilowatts)

1150 RPM rated speed

190-195 g/kWh (grams of fuel per kilowatt-hour)

32,810 kilowatts at 190 g/kWh
= 6,299,520 grams/hour
= 13,888 pounds/hour
= 2,314 gallons/hour

Distance: 110 nm
Speed: 35 kts
Cruise time: 3 hours.
Total fuel consumption: 6,942 gallons.

Comparing the Superferry to airplanes isn’t a fair measure of efficiency. Airplanes don’t ship cars. But this helps explain the need for a fuel surcharge and why the fare structure is similar to that of the airlines.

If the ship went slower there could be a tremendous savings in fuel cost. Depending on hull design, of course. An example is the “displacement hull” used by ships and sailboats. Extremely efficient. You can cover great distances with very little energy. But it’s slow.

Dean Sensui

Miulang

[mel]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Interisland Airliners....

Aloha Airlines flies older Boeing 737-200 series planes.
Hawaiian flies Boeing 717.
Go! flies Bombardier RJ 200.
Island Air Dash8
Pacific Wings Cessna Caravan

None of the bigger jets in the above post fly interisland on a regularly scheduled basis.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Maybe we can keep this discussion going at a slightly lower level of blood-pressure?

I don't know who you're referring to, but my blood pressure is just fine, as always. I hope yours is too.

If we can keep it on the topic and not so personal, I know that would be helpful to me (but others may have a different view on that, I realize.)

Yes, as you well know, many of HT's most regular contributors have made it very clear -- very publicly -- that they agree with me on this particular matter.
And I've said before that it's not personal. I don't know Miulang. (I don't know Tiny Tadani either, but when he started rudely attacking several people here I kicked his cyber-a** big time. Had a whole lot of support for that campaign, too.)
I simply (but strongly) object to such things as her (or anyone) giving incorrect information and/or misleading readers, such as the flagrantly wrong legal advice she gave to a newbie who asked about rental laws here in Hawai'i, as just one example. And as for "keeping it on topic and not so personal", I certainly have the right to point out the falsehood of any of her (or anyone else's) claims, such as when she chastised SuperFerry for not having WiFi connections when I easily and almost instantly proved they do have it... and then she had the unmitigated gall to claim that SuperFerry only added WiFi because of her! (And then, as now, she refused to answer questions about that. Matter of fact, she completely disappeared from HT for over a month rather than answer the questions!)
There are numerous other examples of her being caught publicly and then refusing to answer questions, much less make a simple apology to the readers for her mistakes.
And what's up with the endless posting of news that those of us who live here already know about? She's been told before by several people that that implies we're stupid little islanders.
But what I and many others object to the most (as many have so stated before) is the holier-than-thou tone of most of her posts. She's in Seattle, and most mainlanders aren't aware that one of the very worst things mainlanders can do is imply that they know what's best for Hawai`i, better than those of us who live here do. It's incredibly insulting, and it comes through in a large majority of her posts.
I hope she takes the objections above to heart and that she learns the concept of ha`aha`a.
And to avoid the dreaded 'thread drift'...
About her continuous claims (including just today) that she's not against the SuperFerry?
Everyone who has followed the various SuperFerry threads knows for a fact that that's bullshift too.

Like me or hate me, I will continue to call bullshift on anyone who misleads, insults or attacks us.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

And from Ian Lind's column a couple of weeks ago, was this Superferry fuel consumption analysis from one of his readers, along with a couple of caveats:

Miulang

OK 6,942 gallon fuel burn for HSF estimated for a load to Maui.

HSF claims a pax load of 866 so divide that by 64% to get an average load of 554 passengers.

6942/554= 12.54 gallons per person / per trip.

I heard a 717 burns about 2200 lbs or 314 gallons on a trip. A 717 holds 124 people with the same 64% load or 80 people = appx 4 gallons per person per trip.

717 wins!

[waioli kai]

Lingle's monstroUS Superfolly

.

QUOTE=Nova did a program about calculating the amount of fuel used by various types of jets awhile back (when DC-10s were still in service). If you want to do the calculations yourself, this worksheet provides all the information you need. Obviously, the next generation of planes (the newer 737s, 767s, 777s and 787's all would be more fuel efficient, the 787 in particular because of its all-composite body).

And from Ian Lind's column a couple of weeks ago, was this Superferry fuel consumption analysis from one of his readers, along with a couple of caveats: --- ---
Miulang==QUOTE

For more stats, National Geographic's advertisement for Lingle's (and now apparently from the beginning as well, Big Island's ex-CD chief Mayor Kim's) behemoth gave a turbo-charged flow rate at the ejection port as 17,000 gallons of seawater per second per port, or 68,000 gallons/second per second per craft traveling at cruising speed. Well over a million gallons intake and discharge in less than twenty seconds.

I want to hear Lingle's Aiona confirm the absurd claim in the National Geographic advertisement about HSF's superferry: "It will help bring Hawaiians together." ??!!! What an utterly absurd claim to place in the benefits column in behalf of the Lingle-Aiona-Kim monster ferrys' intrusion into the islands !

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The first laws were broken by the HSF when they violated the intent of the judges TRO and sailed with revenue passengers a day early.

There was no TRO when they sailed. The courts at that point had only found the State had acted improperly.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

OK 6,942 gallon fuel burn for HSF estimated for a load to Maui.

HSF claims a pax load of 866 so divide that by 64% to get an average load of 554 passengers.

6942/554= 12.54 gallons per person / per trip.

I heard a 717 burns about 2200 lbs or 314 gallons on a trip. A 717 holds 124 people with the same 64% load or 80 people = appx 4 gallons per person per trip.

717 wins!

Boy, the HSF values are just an approximation - and probably worst case. It appears they are taking the engine ratings and assuming full power during the entire run. That's iffy at best.

Then there's the whole question - is a gallon of Jet Fuel the "same" as a gallon of diesel? I don't think so.

[dick]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

So.... what about the fire ants on aircraft, barges, and fishing boats.

Funny how that got magically ignored...

Oh wait, they only travel by Super Ferry. Just like the coqui frogs, drugs, and criminals.