Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[glossyp]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

But some of the real questions that need to be answered are more profound than whether or not Kauai wants the Superferry to visit. Does a county in our nation as presently constituted have the right to block a legal mode of transportation?

What about the concept that freedom of movement is a basic tenet of American commerce? Waioli Kai got all frothy-mouthed claiming that there could be absolutely nothing but nightmarish horrors if the Superferry runs and no good could come of it. What about the numerous farmers (and other local manufacturers) who would benefit from being able to get their goods to markets on Oahu and Maui easily and inexpensively? They could sell their crops for a tidy profit and literally plow the earnings into expanding their farms, growing more crops and helping to provide a more sustainable environment.

Earlier I commented on the apparent fear of the homeless and indigent moving to Kauai. I thought about it further and wondered if some of the working homeless here on Oahu might not thrive on Kauai or Maui and should they not have the chance to move there if they can? Moving on to greener pastures via the ocean is a historic route humankind has taken to improve their lot in life. And frankly, I seriously doubt that many indigent and homeless are looking to move to Kauai. Life would be even harder for them there than it is here.

I certainly don't have answers to these questions, but I do know that the near-hysterical reactionary mode that some people are indulging in does no good. I want to see the HSF operate and look forward to riding it someday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they don't sail away before too long.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Your Governor is now saying this whole thing is making the State look bad. Yes, it is, but mostly because of all the name calling that's going on on both sides of the issue. (HT is bad, but the forum in the Advertiser is worse, and there are plenty of Mainland folk who are chiming in over there).

Quite a few people are on the side of the "little guys" who are fighting against being put upon by the government and for the DOT not following the law. And every news story that hits the newswire and gets published in places like the NYT does make the State look foolish.

Will it hurt business? It might hurt tourism a bit (nobody wants to be where they don't seem to be wanted and particularly not if they're going to get caught in the middle of a dispute), but will it hurt CONUS companies from wanting to do business there? Not necessarily. If companies know that Hawai'i has environmental laws that are going to be enforced (and if they understand why the fragile econsystem of Hawai'i needs to be protected), then if they really want to do business in Hawai'i, they will make sure they get those EAs done and put into the project budget and timeline. It's when things are loosey goosey like they have been in the past that some of the larger companies who have the bucks to buy influence think they can get away with skirting around the rules.

If you are only getting the HSF story from the Honolulu papers and TV stations, don't be surprised why the Neighbor Island folks are so upset. Because unless you actually see what happened at the community meeting (I have seen the broadcast in its entirety), much of the real substantive stuff was conveniently left out of the reporting.

Same is true for the Maui Superferry hearings. Watch it on Akaku (the last tape is of the Sept. 18th hearing when Harry Kim testified). Lots of stuff got left out in reporting because it was objected to by one side or the other and Judge Cardoza sustained the objections, but it's all there in an uncensored manner on Akaku.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

What on Earth are you thinking? Where do think everything comes from to keep Oahu economically viable?

It appears that you overlooked that the question was whether Oahu or Kauai is more self-sufficient.
Think stockpiles and storage.

But this thread is about the SuperFerry. If you want to continue your "My island is better than your island" nonsense, try starting a new thread.

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Are you seriously saying that Oahu is not more self-sufficient than Kauai?!??

What on Earth are you thinking? That the ability to be self-sustaining differs from the ability to be self-sufficient? Where do think everything comes from to keep Oahu going? What does Oahu produce that can sustain Oahuans? What foodstuffs and where could it grow it to sustain over a million people? Where do you think your oil comes from? Is there a single significant hydropower plant on Oahu?

After Iniki, Kauai was effectively without outside supplies for more than a week, weeks without response-capable law enforcement, many weeks without public utilities. We came through just fine, our social fabric was never torn and we as a people grew stronger and more resilient as a result. And you think Oahu could do the same? All I can say is I pray that we, you, me and everyone else never have to find out just how wrong you are. Just look what happened when you had a single sewage system failure. If you had devastation on Oahu like we had on Kauai from Iniki, you would be much more likely to find yourelves like New Orleans after Katrina, than like us after Iniki. Think about it.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Yes, I was just reiterating my point. From this Super Ferry debacle, I think the only thing we learned is this: we know who hates who, and perhaps we should just stay away from each other.

Yeah you guys on Kauai and to a lesser extent the people on Maui are ruining this revolutionary way to travel between the islands. No wonder things are so backwards and archaic in this state.All I can say is you better stay on Kauai and not visit any of the other islands. If you do, it will make you look like a hypocrite big time.

By the way you can look in the mirror why we have a poor business climate here and there is not very many well paying jobs.

[Mike_Lowery]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Well you did say Kauai could fend for itself. Maybe the military should blockade Kauai. Lets see how long you guys can survive without the outside.

I just had a better idea, why don't you guys shut down the harbor and the airport since you guys hate outsiders so much.

Yes, I was just reiterating my point. From this Super Ferry debacle, I think the only thing we learned is this: we know who hates who, and perhaps we should just stay away from each other.

[zztype]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

First officer, set Troll Shields to "Ignore." All ahead, full!

Aye, Cap'n!

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

What does it say about some of the Oahu mentality in this conversation who proclaim "The next time" this or that disaster strikes Kauai as if Honolulu County is somehow immune to disasters like hurricanes and tsunamis? Or that Oahu is somehow more self-sufficient than Kauai?

Are you seriously saying that Oahu is not more self-sufficient than Kauai?!??

(And for now I'll let your insults of me slide, due to a shortage of time.)

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This big brother-little brother bs is hilarious. All I remember is fending for ourselves and fighting new-found prostitution and crystal meth epidemic that came along with the military and contractors that followed the hurricane.

True enough about what came in after Iniki.

What does it say about some of the Oahu mentality in this conversation who proclaim "The next time" this or that disaster strikes Kauai as if Honolulu County is somehow immune to disasters like hurricanes and tsunamis? Or that Oahu is somehow more self-sufficient than Kauai?

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

So basically this is a socio-economic class problem. Tourists from planes=$$$, tourists from HSF=possibly indigent folks that might (fill in the blank) and either go back to Oahu or squat on your beaches. I can appreciate this point of view. Nobody in their right mind would want Kauai's beaches to become like some of those out on the Waianae coast.

On a typical night we have five policemen on duty for the whole island. On a typical day we have severe shortage of policemen. DLNR enforcement officials are at a premium as well. We definitely have our proportionate share of criminals, druggies, deviants, marine life squanderers and poachers. Our County parks are few, small and used to the max. We aren't in the position of trying to preserve some idyllic crime-free, drug-free, plenty-to-around paradise. We got problems and we are doing the best we can to deal with them. The Superferry would only add to our existing problems.

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

And all that construction material will not come on the SuperFerry but on BARGES. Please itemize exactly what you and the anti-SF whiners have done to stop BARGES.


The "previous message" you mention was mine. I'm glad you "won't say it is a false observation" since apparently my estimate was not false. You then immediately say that my estimate was "very inaccurate of reality." Your credibility died when you said you one thing and then said the exact opposite in the next sentence.
Your comment about me being "a distant observation" is ludicrous, but each of your succesive posts have given clearer indications that you are indeed a mere internet troll.
Ultimate proof of that is that you've only been on HT for a few days yet you describe me thusly:

How you could create such a blatantly incorrect fantasy about me after your just being here a few days lends ultimate credence to your Internet Trollness.
You might want to try your crap on UseNet, where you might actually find a gullible sucker or two.

Maybe Kai replied to you, I haven't read everything yet, but what do mean stopping barges in order to stop construction materials delivery? The way we control development construction on Kauai is through a County Planning process, Council and public hearings, public, private and community meetings. All the ways that were not permitted to us regarding the Superferry because Superferry investors didn't want it that way, so they got the Lingle administration to try to blow us over letting Superferry slide over and squash us. They aren't dumb, but, neither are we.

Regarding my estimation (you call it "blatantly incorrect fantasy) of yourself, I was reading this Superferry chapter for days, submitted my request to join the conversation, then days later was given the privilege to join in. One thing that helped me better understand some of the recent participants in this conversation was my being able to link to writers' profile pages and scroll through their posts and threads they started. There is undoubtedly a definable mindset associated with each individual writer, and you are no exception, yet on the other hand you are somewhat exceptional since at times you seem to derive a queer pleasure from being unduly caustic toward other writers. I don't mean to be offensive, I just accept that that is the way you are, the way you communicate to some people and accepting that, I hope to not be offended when you turn your caustic remarks on me as you did at the end of your post. We grown ups should be well able to handle cheap shots thrown at us, so I don't condemn you for throwing them, but I do try to better understand their source.

As for my saying your observation was not a false observation....here's where I'm coming from when I say that: if you see a mirage that looks to you like a lake and you say that it is lake, well that is your observation and I would say that could only be a true observation, it is what you observe; however, it is not accurate to reality when in fact there is no lake. And by "distant observation", since you were not at the meeting in Lihue you were distant to the event about which you were making an observation.

[glossyp]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Yes, in that general category lies the issues upon which most , probably every, protester against the Superferry bases a great deal of his and her opposition. We're (I say "we" because I am very familiar with the issues and many who are protesting the Superferry) not oppsed to the people themselves who want to visit Kauai; no body goes to protest at cruise liner or the airport. The foulest part of the vehicle transit issue is the vehicles themselves but equally foul if not worse is the stuff such visitors with carts would knowingly and unknowingly be likely to be loading their vehicles up with. And where do they stay once here? They going to to get to Kauai and then look for a place to stay?

The Superferry is being sold as cheap alternative. The most expensive thing about staying overnights off island is accomodations, not transit. Watching the news the other night my family and I watched a clip where a man out by some tents with half dozen kids running around was saying he could not wait to pack up his family for a trip to Kauai. Visiting relatives in Kauai? What neighborhood one has to wonder, and what about parking cars in that neighborhood? Not staying with relatives? well a hotel? how long? how much money? Nobody on Kauai is buying the baloney that visitors coming off a Superferry with their loaded vehicles are going to be like visitors coming out of the airport with their suitcases.

So basically this is a socio-economic class problem. Tourists from planes=$$$, tourists from HSF=possibly indigent folks that might (fill in the blank) and either go back to Oahu or squat on your beaches. I can appreciate this point of view. Nobody in their right mind would want Kauai's beaches to become like some of those out on the Waianae coast.

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I wasn't there at the meeting but am I to understand that the main issue against it is:

Having a service that transports people and cars between the islands?

Yes, in that general category lies the issues upon which most , probably every, protester against the Superferry bases a great deal of his and her opposition. We're (I say "we" because I am very familiar with the issues and many who are protesting the Superferry) not oppsed to the people themselves who want to visit Kauai; no body goes to protest at cruise liner or the airport. The foulest part of the vehicle transit issue is the vehicles themselves but equally foul if not worse is the stuff such visitors with carts would knowingly and unknowingly be likely to be loading their vehicles up with. And where do they stay once here? They going to to get to Kauai and then look for a place to stay?

The Superferry is being sold as cheap alternative. The most expensive thing about staying overnights off island is accomodations, not transit. Watching the news the other night my family and I watched a clip where a man out by some tents with half dozen kids running around was saying he could not wait to pack up his family for a trip to Kauai. Visiting relatives in Kauai? What neighborhood one has to wonder, and what about parking cars in that neighborhood? Not staying with relatives? well a hotel? how long? how much money? Nobody on Kauai is buying the baloney that visitors coming off a Superferry with their loaded vehicles are going to be like visitors coming out of the airport with their suitcases.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This big brother-little brother bs is hilarious. All I remember is fending for ourselves and fighting new-found prostitution and crystal meth epidemic that came along with the military and contractors that followed the hurricane.

Well you did say Kauai could fend for itself. Maybe the military should blockade Kauai. Lets see how long you guys can survive without the outside.

I just had a better idea, why don't you guys shut down the harbor and the airport since you guys hate outsiders so much.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This thread keeps bringing up a question in my mind - is there a chart somewhere to which I can refer that will tell me the value system for opinions expressed on HT?

It's really quite simple. Opinions that are constantly proven to be wrong have almost no value (if any value at all).
There. See how easy it is?