Ouija Board Game

[Kaonohi]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

Neither Craig nor I would claim to know any truth that applies to anyone outside ourselves. At least, I think that's so - Craig can speak clearly for himself, and doesn't need me to do so.

Typically, our experiences speak for themselves.
Our interpreations of our experiences need strong backing, personal or community, to speak out for us.

There is only one Ultimate Truth, as defined, and I believe none of us have even come close to that knowledge. Yet.

I also don't think that's any reason to stop trying to find it!

Keep on searching.

K - ***

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

“Today, the theory of evolution is an accepted fact for everyone but a fundamentalist minority, whose objections are based not on reasoning but on doctrinaire adherence to religious principles.” - James D. Watson, co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, Nobel Prize recipient

So why is it that this fundamental minority represent the world's religions who are definately not in the minority especially here in the United States of America?

[Kaonohi]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

So why is it that this fundamental minority represent the world's religions who are definately not in the minority especially here in the United States of America?

Hmmmm. Not sure what you mean, C, so let's try this:

USA made this thing called the "Bill of Rights," the first 10 constitutional amendments. The first Amendment ensured we would have "Freedom of Religion," i.e., we could worship any way we wanted.

Of course that is a two-edged sword: not only is the State prohibited from telling us how to worship, the religions are prohibited from telling the State what to do. It's called "Separation of church and state."

They never thought to include a "separation of science and state" amendment.

K?

[Bobinator]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

Hmmmm. Not sure what you mean, C, so let's try this:

USA made this thing called the "Bill of Rights," the first 10 constitutional amendments. The first Amendment ensured we would have "Freedom of Religion," i.e., we could worship any way we wanted.

Of course that is a two-edged sword: not only is the State prohibited from telling us how to worship, the religions are prohibited from telling the State what to do. It's called "Separation of church and state."

They never thought to include a "separation of science and state" amendment.

K?

The "Separation of Church and State" isn't in the Constitution. It was referenced in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to address concerns that one group of Senators or Congressmen would vote in accordance with other politicians that shared their church denomination rather than individual conviction. I think it's absurd to think that Christian leaders would not want society guided by Christian principles.

I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll close with this interesting article. You can read it if you so choose. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/987191/posts

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

I think it's absurd to think that Christian leaders would not want society guided by Christian principles.

Although many of America's colonial statesmen practiced Christianity, our most influential Founding Fathers broke away from traditional religious thinking. The faith of many of our Founding Fathers was deist, not theist. It was best expressed earlier in the Declaration of Independence, when they spoke of "the Laws of Nature" and of "Nature's God." Let's see what else they said, shall we?

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..." - (Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses." - John Adams, "A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America"

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." - James Madison

[Bobinator]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

Although many of America's colonial statesmen practiced Christianity, our most influential Founding Fathers broke away from traditional religious thinking. The faith of many of our Founding Fathers was deist, not theist. It was best expressed earlier in the Declaration of Independence, when they spoke of "the Laws of Nature" and of "Nature's God." Let's see what else they said, shall we?

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..." - (Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses." - John Adams, "A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America"

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." - James Madison

Leo,

I agree with all the quotes, with the exception of- "Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson

Only because it is obviously a partial sentence, which could be taken way out of context... just like how some Christians misuse scripture.

At any rate, I don't believe anyone is saying the U.S. Government was founded on Christianity as a religion. But its believable to say it was founded on Christian principles.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

I agree with all the quotes, with the exception of- "Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson

Only because it is obviously a partial sentence, which could be taken way out of context... just like how some Christians misuse scripture.

At any rate, I don't believe anyone is saying the U.S. Government was founded on Christianity as a religion. But its believable to say it was founded on Christian principles.

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Our government was founded on reasonable and mutually beneficial principles that can be found in most religions, Buddhism, paganism, even Islam!

The idea that the US is a "Christian Nation" was pushed upon our psyches by people with political agendas. Since most Americans with religious beliefs claim some form of Christianity, it's a good way to get votes.

The original Pledge of Allegiance didn't even have the words "under God" after "One nation," and "In God We Trust" wasn't always on our currency.

If you keep your church out of my government, I'll keep my government out of your church.

[surlygirly]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

If you keep your church out of my government, I'll keep my government out of your church.

And we can try to keep religion out of at least ONE thread that's actually interesting...

I've never used an actual Ouija Board. A bunch of my friends and I tried to make one at a slumber party once, but when we were cutting out the last pieces, one of the girls cut her finger really badly and bled everywhere. We took that as a sign not to continue! But I've always kind of wanted to try it just once.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

And we can try to keep religion out of at least ONE thread that's actually interesting...

You are right, and I am sorry - as I'm the one who took it in that direction with my comment:

Just like religious faith. We don't have definitive answers, but too many people insist that their way of believing is the "truth."

I was making a bigger pool out of the supernatural/spirit world aspects of Quija, based on my own attitudes about religion, and completely derailed the discussion into yet another one in which we will never find agreement; one that could go on and on and on. I won't continue in that direction, and thank you for getting it back on track so courteously, sg.

[surlygirly]

Re: Ouija Board Game

Always glad to be of service! I wasn't trying to call anyone out- just noticed a lot of the threads lately have kind of taken a political/religious turn and thought maybe we could either start a thread just for that, or leave this one neutral.

Thanks, LL!

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Ouija Board Game

Was it an urban legend or in a movie where you can hear spirits screaming when an Ouija board is burning?

[cyleet99]

Re: Ouija Board Game

I think it's myth...mentioned in several places on the web.

FWIW, the Wikipedia article about these "talking boards" is pretty interesting. I played on one with friends in early teen years, but I did not believe any of it and don't remember any of the answers.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Beyond the Ouija Board

And we can try to keep religion out of at least ONE thread that's actually interesting?

You can try, but the topics so closly parallel that it's bound to come up.
If the board works, for whatever reason/s, then it upends a lot of religeous ferver. Can you say tizzy?

[salmoned]

Re: Ouija Board Game

Yes, yes, and yes. 'nuff said.

Kaonohi - "...and I believe none of us have even come close to that knowledge. Yet." Wrong, oh so wrong.

Bobinator - "But its believable to say it was founded on Christian principles." Believable, maybe, but true? Nope.

[Bobinator]

Re: Ouija Board Game

Yes, yes, and yes. 'nuff said.

Kaonohi - "...and I believe none of us have even come close to that knowledge. Yet." Wrong, oh so wrong.

Bobinator - "But its believable to say it was founded on Christian principles." Believable, maybe, but true? Nope.

The Church came over a thousand years before our government, so Leo can move to Communist China if he wants. Seems like it would suit him better. They don't have God in any part of their government.

I dare you to say the Nation of Hawaii movement is not founded on principles of Hawaiiana.

What part of the 10 Commandments is not agreeable with the Constitution?