Don Imus, the racist?

[scrivener]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

That still doesn't really demonstrate that ALL women are treated as SECOND-CLASS citizens by the MAJORITY of men.

[tutusue]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

[...]Advocates for tolerance tolerate everyone but the intolerant. What kind of tolerance is that?
[...]
I don't know Robin well enough to know whether or not she could work closely with someone who hates a particular race, but I don't think I'd rule it out.

I've watched Howard Stern less than a handful of times. I'm no prude...huh uh...no way. I cannot, however, take Stern's show. It's way to raunchy for my taste. OTOH, I've seen the guy interviewed outside the confines of his show and I *really* him! His show is a very profitable act and he's parlayed it into a highly lucrative career. I have the option to watch or not watch. I choose the latter. I really like sidekick Robin and guess her 20 year career with Stern has turned into something quite lucrative, also. The kind of money made in that industry can easily buy loyalty regardless if one approves or disapproves of the boss's outspoken behavior or the format of the show. Not saying that's the case with Robin, tho'.

Imus, OTOH, doesn't have what I consider Stern to have...a likeability factor. He calls his "act" comedy. I see him as a mean spirited, cantankerous man with no likeability factor...even before the Rutgers incident.

Personally, I hope he doesn't lose his job after his 2 week suspension. If/when he goes back on the air his head will be on the chopping block. It could easily make him squirm. I'd love to hear the post-Rutgers Imus. If he returns to the pre-Rutgers Imus, then let one of the engineers silence his mic without telling him! Ya know...ongoing "technical difficulties", bouncing paychecks! Things like that!!!

Dang, Scriv. You just make so much sense!

[LikaNui]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

We're talking in terms of earning power, Lika. And is the US Census good enough for you?

No, it is not. Because it still does not make any reference whatsoever to your claim that "All women in this country are still treated as second class citizens by the majority of men", regarding earnings or anything else, for that matter.

[Miulang]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

That still doesn't really demonstrate that ALL women are treated as SECOND-CLASS citizens by the MAJORITY of men.

There are exceptions on either side, but if you look at the picture as a whole and women as a class, the situation is that while women are slowly gaining economic equality, they still haven't. And I'm only talking about the ability of a woman to make as much money as a man doing the same job, with the same set of skills and competencies. Because in this country, money=power.

The tide is changing, though, as more women break through the glass ceiling and create more opportunities to pull other women through. Parity will be created when women and men can compete solely on the basis of their skill and ability.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

This isn't a one-off accidental comment on Imus' part - he has a history of making statements that offend people. If he still brings in the ratings and the advertising dollars, there's little those of us "offended" can do - short of not listening. We live in a time and culture that supports blowhards and blatherers of all stripes, but they don't really have the influence that they like us to think they do.

[alohabear]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

There are exceptions on either side, but if you look at the picture as a whole and women as a class, the situation is that while women are slowly gaining economic equality, they still haven't. And I'm only talking about the ability of a woman to make as much money as a man doing the same job, with the same set of skills and competencies. Because in this country, money=power.

The tide is changing, though, as more women break through the glass ceiling and create more opportunities to pull other women through. Parity will be created when women and men can compete solely on the basis of their skill and ability.

Miulang

Most married men would disagree I'm bossed around all the time.

[Miulang]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

Proctor & Gamble and Staples have both pulled advertising support of the Don Imus show (according to a gossip blog, Bigelow Tea will soon announce withdrawal of advertising money too).

Miulang

[tutusue]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

[...]If he still brings in the ratings and the advertising dollars, there's little those of us "offended" can do - short of not listening.

One can also write the advertisers. Of course, just one won't make a difference but enough will. Tell the advertisers you won't be purchasing their products because of where they're spending their advertising dollars. They listen.

We live in a time and culture that supports blowhards and blatherers of all stripes, but they don't really have the influence that they like us to think they do.

But they're still getting what they want most...attention! And, with attention comes influence...negative, positive or otherwise.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

Neither of those "citations" support your comment that "All women in this country are still treated as second class citizens by the majority of men".
It is sources proving that claim that Scrivener and I (and presumably others) are seeking.

I can see there is some truth to the statement that "All women in this country are still treated as second class citizens by the majority of men."

How many male managers out there know that they have both male and female employees who are equally qualified and do the same quality of work, but the male employees get paid more and the managers do nothing about it?

How many men expect their wives to be the ones to stay at home with the kids, a move which will handicap the wives' careers in ways that men rarely, if ever, have to suffer?

How many men have called their boys "pussies" or "bitches," thereby indicating that the feminine is less than the masculine?

How many men have called women they don't know, "hos"?

How many male voters out there have said, "Oh, I won't vote for Hillary Clinton--she's just scarey. I mean, those cankles/grating voice/hair, etc."

How many men refuse to watch women's basketball, saying that it's just not as exciting as men's?

How many men, upon hearing they're about to have a child, wish for a boy more than a girl?

How many male executives arrange for a round of golf with other male execs--leaving out female execs--and make deals while on the golf course?

How many men enjoy watching the kind of porn where the money shot is specifically that the man squoots all over the woman's face?

I don't have what some would call "evidence" but I know what I observe. and what I observe shows me that yes, women still are seen as less than men in ways that I would have hoped would not be. every guy friend and relative of mine--even my eric, who i adore and whom i believe is one of the best people on earth-- has at one time or another or more been guilty of the kind of stuff i've described. if they can have moments of being guilty of treating women as a second class citizens--if for nothing else but that the world teaches them it's okay to do so--then why is it so hard to believe that the rest of the majority of men are guilty of the same?

i understand that some of the examples i've given about describe situations where women put themselves in that position. but would it be hard to believe that maybe some women, understanding that women are still of second class to men, choose to do certain things to thrive in that kind of environment?

(as for the porn thing--yeah, i know that porn is one of the very few industries where the women are usually paid much more than the men. but what does it say when it's the sex industry--geared mainly to the pleasure of men--that is the vanguard on this social issue?)

off topic again....

[scrivener]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

Dang, Scriv. You just make so much sense!

Thanks, but I can name eighteen algebra students who would disagree.

[sinjin]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

Parity will be created when women and men can compete solely on the basis of their skill and ability.

Miulang

And when men get paternity leave equal to maternity leave.

[Miulang]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

And when men get paternity leave equal to maternity leave.

Only if men can actually become pregnant, carry for nine months and then give birth to babies! BTW: Some progressive companies DO allow paternity leaves (even if the babies are being adopted).

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

Proctor & Gamble and Staples have both pulled advertising support of the Don Imus show (according to a gossip blog, Bigelow Tea will soon announce withdrawal of advertising money too).

General Motors & American Express have pulled their advertising as well. Story

I enjoyed this quote from another NYT story about the Imus fracas:

In this polite but sometimes strained community, Mr. Imus is the cranky, aging neighbor who can be relied upon to shovel snow off the sidewalk but occasionally blurts out words so offensive and insensitive that it makes everyone regret inviting him to the block party.

[sinjin]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

Only if men can actually become pregnant, carry for nine months and then give birth to babies! BTW: Some progressive companies DO allow paternity leaves (even if the babies are being adopted).

Miulang

Difficult to "compete solely on the basis of their skill and ability" while enjoying benefits that have a cost to business that do not come with male employees.

[Miulang]

Re: Don Imus, the racist?

General Motors & American Express have pulled their advertising as well. Story

I enjoyed this quote from another NYT story about the Imus fracas:

Wow...talk about the power of the advertising dollar being used as a hammer...according to the story Leo quoted, Proctor & Gamble not only suspended advertising from the Imus show, but from ALL daytime programming (temporarily) at MSNBC. That's one powerful incentive for MSNBC to get rid of Imus. Wonder if Amex will do the same? That would REALLY hurt MSNBC.

Miulang