The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[kamuelakea]

Re: "There is no ceasefire"

But these people didn't have weapons. So what would you do? Run outside and tell the enemy to come shoot you to put you out of your misery?

Miulang

The excuse machine just churns um out.

The townpeople outnumber the terrorists 100 to 1, at least. We could do it Arab style, cut their heads off, or stone them to death. They have gasoline, that could be a good bomb. We could think of a way I'm sure.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: "There is no ceasefire"

Actually my point was clear and I will repeat it. The weak defenders of tyrants are the first to be killed. History shows this. You don't like history apparently.

Yes, and you can make your points clear without resorting to such a deeply emotional nerve. Now, how you can stretch that to "you don't like history" shows how twisted your thought processes are, especially since you have just suggested that the six million-plus Jews slaughtered during the Holocaust were "weak defenders of tyrants."

And really, I made a historical point with that comment while you lowered yourself to personal insults. Seems to me you are the one breaking discussion board etiquette.

I certainly did; and those who know me through my postings are probably surprised - guess you aren't the only one who can make a point, are you?

[Miulang]

Re: "There is no ceasefire"

The townpeople outnumber the terrorists 100 to 1, at least. We could do it Arab style, cut their heads off, or stone them to death. They have gasoline, that could be a good bomb. We could think of a way I'm sure.

No, you said all the people were de facto terrorists because they chose to live among terrorists. The terrorists were the ones with the rifles and missiles. They could have been Uncle Ali or cousin Amir. If your relatives were terrorists would you really try to kill your own family? My guess is you would.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: "There is no ceasefire"

I certainly did; and those who know me through my postings are probably surprised - guess you aren't the only one who can make a point, are you?

Hey, Mr. Lakio, the quote is from someone you know:

From "What Pisses Me Off?" thread: I've said it before, but I'll say it again...when posters on HT who have differing perspectives move away from making concise arguments and sink to personal insults and mean-spirited attacks instead.

Who said that?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: "There is no ceasefire"

Hey, Mr. Lakio, the quote is from someone you know:

From "What Pisses Me Off?" thread: I've said it before, but I'll say it again...when posters on HT who have differing perspectives move away from making concise arguments and sink to personal insults and mean-spirited attacks instead.

Who said that?

Hey, that would be ME! Guess your mean-sprited "ovens" line proved my point by pissing me off, didn't it?

[kamuelakea]

Re: "There is no ceasefire"

No, you said all the people were de facto terrorists because they chose to live among terrorists. The terrorists were the ones with the rifles and missiles. They could have been Uncle Ali or cousin Amir. If your relatives were terrorists would you really try to kill your own family? My guess is you would.

Miulang

Lets see, if my relatives were terrorists, would you kill them? I surely wouldn't let them use me and my family as pawns in their war on Israel. I would definitly help to stop them, turn them in, and maybe kill them if that was the only option.

Ted Kaczynski's brother turned Teddy in. I think he did the right thing.

To me its obvious, you do the right thing. Interesting that you seem to draw the line at doing what is right when it comes to your own family.

So I take it you wouldn't turn in your own family if they were murderers, tax cheats, thiefs etc?? Interesting.

[Miulang]

Re: "There is no ceasefire"

So I take it you wouldn't turn in your own family if they were murderers, tax cheats, thiefs etc?? Interesting.

Turning them in to proper authorities is one thing, killing them is another, which is what you are advocating. The situation in South Lebanon is dicey because as you indicated, Hezbollah controls the government.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

US commissioned massacres and mutilations by remote control

But these people didn't have weapons. So what would you do? Run outside and tell the enemy to come shoot you to put you out of your misery? I guess that would be more "humane" than waiting for humanitarian aid which can't get to you because the enemy isn't allowing aid trucks into your village.Miulang

Earlier this year Israel became officially affiliated with the International Red Cross. Wonder what Israel talks about with Red Cross concerning the humantarian catastrophe Israel has created in Lebanon and Gaza, in occupied non-Israeli Palestine generally.

Also wonder why it doesn't register in our hearts more than it does what is happening as Lebanese --Lebanese who just happen, by circumstance of birth if you will, to have blood bonds when not national partisan and ethnic and religious affiliation with Lebanons Hizbollah resistance to Zionaziism in their homeland, on their homes and peoples-- civilians are being massacred and mutilated by remote control at the fingertips of our own countrymen on behalf of what is internationally recognized now to be the region's most barbarian aggressor, Israel.

What the Israeli are doing is equally the doing of the United States government. The near unanimously positioned officialdom of the U.S. Government vociferously espouses, when not in muted conscience concurs, "There is no light between US and Israel." . Or, as if that metaphor may leave some doubt, it is made more clear with "There is no air between US and Israel."

[waioli kai]

terrorUSts warfare , Re: "There is no ceasefire"

--- ' The terrorists are the ones with the rifles and missiles. They could have been Uncle Ali or cousin Amir. If your relatives were terrorists would you really try to kill your own family? ' ---

Our terrorUSts are not so easily identified by their appearance, would that they were. Seeing how most terrorUSts are not in combat uniform, should they expect their "detention"/or treatment by anti-terrorUSts to conform with Geneva Convention codes of warfare? Are not terrorUSts, as they claim their enemy is doing, hiding from their enemy in civilian populations?

Seeing how terrorUSts warfare against militant anti-terrorUSt individuals entails so much carnage of non-militants and destruction of non-militant properties and environment, what believable claim to suffering injustice do terrorUSts possess when terrorUSts experience violence perpetrated by militant anti-terrorUSts in the realm where terrorUSts live/operate/hide ?

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

"Today, we hear unctuous statements about how Israel takes pains to avoid civilian casualties, drops leaflets to warn civilians to flee target areas and conforms to all the rules of civilized warfare.

But Israel's words and deeds contradict her propaganda. As the war began, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert accused Lebanon, which had condemned Hezbollah for the killing and capture of the Israeli soldiers, of an "act of war." Army chief of staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz publicly threatened "to turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years."

Gillerman, at a pro-Israel rally in New York, thundered, "[T]o those countries who claim that we are using disproportionate force, I have only this to say: You're damn right we are."

"His comments drew wild applause," said the Jerusalem Post.

"...If Israel is not in violation of the principle of proportionality, by which Christians are to judge the conduct of a just war, what can that term mean? There are 600 civilian dead in Lebanon, 19 in Israel, a ratio of 30-1 – though Hezbollah is firing unguided rockets, while Israel is using precision-guided munitions.

Thousands of Lebanese civilians are injured. Perhaps 800,000 are homeless.

Yet, whatever one thinks of the morality of what Israel is doing, the stupidity is paralyzing. Instead of maintaining the moral and political high ground it had – when even Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan were condemning Hezbollah and privately hoping Israel would inflict a humiliating defeat on Nasrallah – Israel launched an air war on an innocent people. Now, 87 percent of Lebanese back Hezbollah, and the entire Arab and Islamic world, Shia and Sunni alike, is rallying behind Nasrallah. ..."

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14311.htm

Sadly,
Miulang

[Miulang]

Examining why the massacre at Qana happened...

Oh no! It appears that the IDF cannot confirm that there were Katyusha missiles being fired from Hezbollah sites in Qana prior to the annihilation of that town. According to Ha'aretz:

"...As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

Meanwhile, the Lebanese Red Cross workers reported on Monday that 28 bodies, 19 of them children, were removed from the rubble.

The count is lower than the some 60 bodies reported by news agencies, quoting Lebanese security officials. Survivors say 60 people were in the building at the time of the strike.

Additional bodies are expected to be found in rescue operations."

Oops.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Media using dead children as props in propaganda war.

What do Muslims do with dead children in Lebanon? Pose and repose and act in order to win the propaganda war.

I am not going to post the link here because the photos show dead children being used for propaganda purposes. Its from eureferendum.blogspot. I suggest you just trust me about the media. Viewing the pictures is not recommended. You can google it I'm sure if you're really interested.

They show the same body posing with the same "rescuer" in different areas, and different poses at different times separated by hours.

There is a lot that is sick about this war but the media has lost all direction. Its all come down to show time.

The articles concludes with words better than I could provide:

Whatever else, the event in Qana was a human tragedy. But the photographs do not show it honestly. Rather, they have been staged for effect, exploiting the victims in an unwholesome manner. In so doing, they are no longer news photographs - they are propaganda. And, whoever said the camera cannot lie forgot that photographers can and do. Those lies have spread throughout the world by now and will be in this morning's newspapers, accepted as real by the millions who view them.

The profession of photo-journalism thereby is sadly diminished by them, and the trust in those who took them and in those who carried them is misplaced. Truly, we are dealing with loathesome creatures.

[waioli kai]

USS Liberty. Pollard:Olson

Miulang= -- "Our friends, the Israelis, have also committed crimes against us, too. Hardly anyone remembers the incident involving the USS Liberty in 1967, in which Israel deliberately torpedoed our unarmed ship (which was on a surveillance mission in international waters) and caused the deaths of 34 sailors. An investigation before Congress found evidence that the ship was intentionally torpedoed by the Israeli military to prevent us from gathering intelligence on their defense systems."

The possible intelligence to be gathered by the unarmed USS Liberty were IDF radio transmissions concerning IDF-captured Egyptian soldiers and the IDF slaughter of those prisoners. Maybe that's where the "detainee" concept which US military/intelligence uses to obsfucate codes of the Geneva Convention originated.

--- "The Israelis have always denied that it was intentional, and claimed that they mistook the USS Liberty for an Egyptian horse carrier." ---

There are first hand accounts that Israel had warned the Johnson administration to get USS Liberty out of there in 24 hrs., but it must have been a weekend or holiday for the U.S. because the message never made it to the ship's commander. Allegedly, the commander of USS Liberty, when under attack by the unmarked Israeli aircraft and one Israeli watercraft torpedo launcher, requested air support from a U.S. aircraft carriers fighter planes and the carrier's commander put planes in the air but called them back on orders from Washington.

---"They eventually awarded monetary damages to the families of the victims of the attack.'---

Who is the "They" who awarded monetary contributions? The Israeli or American government? Oh, never mind it's from the same pocket anyway---the U.S. Taxpayers.

The link to the Pollard case concerning Israeli military espionage reads like it's from Pollard's attorney Theodore B. Olson who was U.S. Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel from 1981 to 1984, and, prior to Olson's nomination by WBush to be the 42nd Solicitor General of the United States on June 11, 2001 three months before his wife died in one of the hijacked airplanes, he successfully represented candidates George W. Bush and Dick Cheney in the Supreme Court Bush v. Gore cases involving the 2000 presidential election.
>>>>>>>>>>>

' on March 3, 1987 -- the day before Pollard was to be sentenced -- Secretary Weinberger submitted a supplemental declaration to the court, which included the following:

"It is difficult for me, even in the so-called "year of the spy," to conceive of a greater harm to national security than that caused by the defendant in the view of the breadth, the critical importance to the U.S., and the high sensitivity of the information he sold to Israel . . . I respectfully submit that any U.S. citizen, and in particular a trusted government official, who sells U.S. secrets to any foreign nation should not be punished merely as a common criminal. Rather the punishment imposed should reflect the perfidy of the individual's actions, the magnitude of the treason committed, and the needs of national security. "

'

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

I never said the media wasn't biased, which is why I try to find more than one side of the story (including, in this case, the electronic versions of The Jerusalem Post [pro-Zionist], Ha'aretz [more centrist-liberal] and Naharnet[Lebanese]), plus the Syrian papers, the Egyptian papers and the US press, and then formulate my opinions.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: USS Liberty. Pollard:Olson

The link to the Pollard case concerning Israeli military espionage reads like it's from Pollard's attorney Theodore B. Olson who was U.S. Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel from 1981 to 1984, and, before his nomination by WBush to be the 42nd Solicitor General of the United States on June 11, 2001 three months before his wife died in one of the hijacked airplanes, he successfully represented candidates George W. Bush and Dick Cheney in the Supreme Court Bush v. Gore cases involving the 2000 presidential election.
>>>>>>>>>>>

' on March 3, 1987 -- the day before Pollard was to be sentenced -- Secretary Weinberger submitted a supplemental declaration to the court, which included the following:

"It is difficult for me, even in the so-called "year of the spy," to conceive of a greater harm to national security than that caused by the defendant in the view of the breadth, the critical importance to the U.S., and the high sensitivity of the information he sold to Israel . . . I respectfully submit that any U.S. citizen, and in particular a trusted government official, who sells U.S. secrets to any foreign nation should not be punished merely as a common criminal. Rather the punishment imposed should reflect the perfidy of the individual's actions, the magnitude of the treason committed, and the needs of national security. "

'

I deliberately posted that particular Pollard link (although there were other less biased links) because I wanted to show that I don't only post things that I agree with. The fact that Pollard hasn't been executed for treason (he was sentenced to life imprisonment for a crime less serious than treason) tells me that the US government and Israel were in complicity to get the guy off. Israel couldn't expect us to let Pollard off scot free because they admitted he was a mole for their government, so the best our government could offer them was a sentence of life imprisonment. I think they said he "gave" Israel the information rather than selling it to them, so therefore it really wasn't an act of treason.

Miulang