Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

[nachodaddy]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

In accordance with what? another country? and there are other people who subscribe to the same what? beliefs?

No countries, religions, political affiliations, color of hair involved.

Beliefs??? Sure, we can use that one. Carefully though.

**** equals "the belief that it is OK blow up innocent civilians on a plane"

[timkona]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

Those darn Christians in their trenchcoats walking into a coffee shop while I'm trying to sip my cup of Kona, and blowing the place up, really aggravate me.

Golly, I am astonished at some of the postings here today and yesterday. The utopian naivite is pretty damned scary. Almost as scary as Islam.

[timkona]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

Just so I got your logic straight, let's review.

Puai - Poverty is the excuse for Muslim terror. Not the Quran.

Miu - Striking up a conversation with a perfect stranger in an airport is an offense worthy of arrest.

Okay, now I'm straightened out.

[Miulang]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

No countries, religions, political affiliations, color of hair involved.

Beliefs??? Sure, we can use that one. Carefully though.

**** equals "the belief that it is OK blow up innocent civilians on a plane"

To arrest someone just because they believed in something like it was OK to blow up innocent civilians on a plane and not because they were actually in the process of planning and executing a plan might be a little dicey.

If they are actually in the process of planning something and a jurisdiction can prove it, then that is actionable. But to arrest someone just because they believe that it's OK to blow up innocent civilians on a plane (aka a "sympathizer") it would be really really hard to get a conviction. But the people who openly espouse these sentiments should at least be put under scrutiny with warrants.

It's kinda like you go around telling everyone that you want to kill your mother-in-law. What would the people around you do? 1) think you were nuts and get as far away from you as they could; 2) discount what you've said and not be alarmed because in all other ways you seem normal, or 3) be very alarmed and call the cops or your mother-in-law to warn them.

If you actually went out and killed your MIL, the people who thought you were nuts would say "see, I knew he was nuts" and they'd try to beat that murder rap with a plea of insanity. For people who thought you were joking, they would say, "wow, he sure didn't seem like he was capable of doing things like that". For the "pre-emptive" folks, they would say, "see? we knew he would do this someday. This is what you get for not listening to us."

If your MIL lived to be 90 and died of natural causes, both the people who thought you were nuts or were joking would be grateful that you didn't act on your words, while the "pre-emptive" folks might think they shouldn't have said anything.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

Just so I got your logic straight, let's review.

Puai - Poverty is the excuse for Muslim terror. Not the Quran.

Miu - Striking up a conversation with a perfect stranger in an airport is an offense worthy of arrest.

Okay, now I'm straightened out.

Answer my question, Tim: What was it about those 2 men that caused your radar to flash "warning" enough that you felt you had to confront them as opposed to all those other men who might have been standing nearby? Or was the situation more like you're just a friendly kind of guy who struck up a conversation with 2 other guys and in the process you got to talking about something (like religion, maybe?) and the discussion got a little heated?

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

Don't put words in my mouth, Tim.

There are whackos all over the place; Muslims don't have the lock on murder. But I have NEVER excused, nor will ever condone murder of innocents done in the name of religion or government. And there was an earlier point made which I fully agree with: how come the M.E. isn't doing more, either in the auspices of their governmental powers, or through the appeal of the more peaceful aspects of their religion, to stop their terrorist acts? Their collective silence is deafening.

And another thing: within my own memory banks I can recall that there was the Iran-Iraq war, Gulf War I (Iraq rolling on Kuwait), the Syria-Lebanon War, and not even looking at the other M.E. outskirt bloodbaths, i.e. Serbia, Turkey, Afghanistan, Libya...there are all these other wars between M.E. peoples, not even looking at the bloodshed caused in beefing with Israel, or terrorist acts committed outside of their region.

Why isn't there a collective movement within the M.E. peoples/communities/governments to quell them? Where are their treaties of peace? And yes, that PISSES ME OFF!!

Ergo, if you try to whittle my pov down to some little soundbyte, you will be way the hell out in Neptune.

[nachodaddy]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

To arrest someone just because they believed in something like it was OK to blow up innocent civilians on a plane and not because they were actually in the process of planning and executing a plan might be a little dicey.

If they are actually in the process of planning something and a jurisdiction can prove it, then that is actionable. But to arrest someone just because they believe that it's OK to blow up innocent civilians on a plane (aka a "sympathizer") it would be really really hard to get a conviction. But the people who openly espouse these sentiments should at least be put under scrutiny with warrants.

It's kinda like you go around telling everyone that you want to kill your mother-in-law. What would the people around you do? 1) think you were nuts and get as far away from you as they could; 2) discount what you've said and not be alarmed because in all other ways you seem normal, or 3) be very alarmed and call the cops or your mother-in-law to warn them.

If you actually went out and killed your MIL, the people who thought you were nuts would say "see, I knew he was nuts" and they'd try to beat that murder rap with a plea of insanity. For people who thought you were joking, they would say, "wow, he sure didn't seem like he was capable of doing things like that". For the "pre-emptive" folks, they would say, "see? we knew he would do this someday. This is what you get for not listening to us."

If your MIL lived to be 90 and died of natural causes, both the people who thought you were nuts or were joking would be grateful that you didn't act on your words, while the "pre-emptive" folks might think they shouldn't have said anything.

Miulang

I get the "sympathizer" part. I agreed to that early in our debate. I am not attacking it, why do you insist on defending it? In fact don't even answer. It is not germaine.

The "MIL" reference is rubbish cuz it is in the third person. Ask my MIL what she would do if I said I was going to kill her (purely hypothetical I may add). You are going to get a whole lot different perspective and it is not going to be from the grandstands like your examples play out. Stick to first person, please. That is what this is all about.

So....back on track. "If they are actually in the process of planning something and a jurisdiction can prove it, then that is actionable".

What would you consider "actionable"?

[timkona]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

The first was medium dark, with olive tone. Had a pretty large piece of carry-on luggage. And was sitting in a chair quite close to where I sat. Upon speaking, his accent was apparent. He was a real nice fellow.

The second was a little easier. He was reading the Quran and wearing a dress. I sat down in the seat right next to him on purpose. The conversation was not as friendly as the first guy. But cordial nonetheless.

Get to know your fellow passengers. You might meet some great people.

[Miulang]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

I get the "sympathizer" part. I agreed to that early in our debate. I am not attacking it, why do you insist on defending it? In fact don't even answer. It is not germaine.

The "MIL" reference is rubbish cuz it is in the third person. Ask my MIL what she would do if I said I was going to kill her (purely hypothetical I may add). You are going to get a whole lot different perspective and it is not going to be from the grandstands like your examples play out. Stick to first person, please. That is what this is all about.

So....back on track. "If they are actually in the process of planning something and a jurisdiction can prove it, then that is actionable".

What would you consider "actionable"?

Arrest them with sufficient evidence and let the legal system decide their fate.

Miulang

[nachodaddy]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

Arrest them with sufficient evidence and let the legal system decide their fate.

Miulang

Whose legal system?

[Miulang]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

The first was medium dark, with olive tone. Had a pretty large piece of carry-on luggage. And was sitting in a chair quite close to where I sat. Upon speaking, his accent was apparent. He was a real nice fellow.

The second was a little easier. He was reading the Quran and wearing a dress. I sat down in the seat right next to him on purpose. The conversation was not as friendly as the first guy. But cordial nonetheless.

Get to know your fellow passengers. You might meet some great people.

If that first guy was Afro American instead of with an olive toned skin, would you have struck up a conversation with him?

Now, what if that second guy was not wearing a djellaba, was Caucasian and was carrying the Quran. My guess is you would still try to have a "conversation" with him, just because he was carrying the Quran, yes?

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

Get to know your fellow passengers. You might meet some great people.

Or at least force an early detonation. Keep up the good work Tim. I'll be in the bar where I'm safe from Muslims.

[nachodaddy]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

I'll be in the bar where I'm safe from Muslims.

I'll be sitting next to you eating a ham sammy.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

So....back on track. "If they are actually in the process of planning something and a jurisdiction can prove it, then that is actionable".

What would you consider "actionable"?

I wanna play. "Actionable" means "subject to prosecution under the national jurisdiction of the place where they are caught. In the case of international location, then the suspects are eligible to be extradicted to that country and tried there under that country's laws."

So if those Pakistanis were discovered out while they plotted in Berlin (for example), Germany gets to prosecute. And if the plans were to be that these suspects were going to blow up a plan travelling from U.K. to U.S. then both the U.K. and U.S. reserves the right to extradite them and prosecute according to their laws.

Isn't that how it is now?

[Miulang]

Re: Terrorist Plans Stopped In TIME!!!!!

I'll be sitting next to you eating a ham sammy.

ROFL! And washing it down with a pint of ale!

Miulang