18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

[kaneohegirl]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

I gotta jump in hea an say sumting dis isnt a problem dat jus wen come up. dis been around awhile it is just getting worse. when I was a kid my sister who is 10 yrs older then myself moved out and moved in with her BF and had a child. they lived for YEARS in 1 room (a bedroom)that was rented out by a little old lady that rented 3 other rooms out in the house. they all shared a bathroom there was NO kitchen except the hot plate that was in the bathroom. as the baby got bigger they tried to move into a regular apt but it was just too hard. so they ended up moving into our house. so we had 2 sep families living in one house my mother and stepfather and my sisters family. oh and 5 dogs. was it easy Hell no is it still this way? in some ways yes she (sis) is sharing a 1 bedroom with 2 other ppl and have a hardtime paying the rent. the only consolation right now is her daughter is in a group home doing rehab the bad thing the daughter is pregnant and will get out of rehab soon..... hmmm wonder where shes gonna live? oh wait I know with mom....

so I belive there are WAAAAYY more ppl living like this family just to pay rent. odds are the homes are clean the kids are taken care of because with this many ppl living there no need for daycare someone (or 2) can stay home clean house watch the kids and cook the meals. what do the apt look like probly lots of bunkbeds and a couple of tvs one in each room. hey if the plumbing worked sanitation isnt too much of an issue is it? is it right for ppl to live this way no but when it comes down to are you going to let your kids be homeless no you wont.

now there are going to be those that say oh maybe they were druggies or immigrants yea maybe ...but think beyond that what if was you... you loose your job you get 3 kids an your wife is only working part time cause daycare cost too much.... what you going do? live on the beach wen your mom says come you live hea we take care of you, you work help pay bills, your wife stay home be mom, help grandma clean house... wot you goin do take your family to the beach?

how many of you are living paycheck to paycheck? waiting to get paid to pay the electric bill or your car payment ? how many of you can go on cash savings (not credit cards) for 3 months while you find a job that pays as much as you were making? heck even one month? can you do it? because that is all that stands between you and being homeless like so many ppl right now just one bad bump in the road. thats all it takes!

[Miulang]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

Related to the perception of what constitutes "crowded", I just learned about a very fascinating field of science called "proxemics", which measures the comfortable distance between people in various situations.

If it turns out that those 18 people living in that apartment in Waipahu were immigrants, it could very well explain why there were so many of them living there. Proxemics says that different cultures require different amounts of personal space to be comfortable. In other words, in the US, if there is an uncrowded bus, the tendency would be for people to try to space themselves apart; in Japan, which has a different culture and population density, people think nothing of being jammed like sardines into subway cars.

Miulang

[kaneohegirl]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

Some statistics for you, also this from a very recent census report on Hawai'i demographics:

the problem with demographics is ppl tend to think its going to get them in trouble so they DO NOT fill them out properly. if you know you have 18 ppl living in you 2 bedroom apt and You know that you arent supposed to have that many ppl and you are AFRAID of being caught by those bad government officials telling your landlord " hey did you know you had 18 ppl living in apt 3C" THEY ARE GONNA LIE

heck alot of ppl just throw the census forms out!

proven point is California were they know the census is off by a large margin due to the hispanic population not filling them out due to fear of deportation....
so a census can only give you a portion of real statistics

[Miulang]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

the problem with demographics is ppl tend to think its going to get them in trouble so they DO NOT fill them out properly. if you know you have 18 ppl living in you 2 bedroom apt and You know that you arent supposed to have that many ppl and you are AFRAID of being caught by those bad government officials telling your landlord " hey did you know you had 18 ppl living in apt 3C" THEY ARE GONNA LIE

heck alot of ppl just throw the census forms out!

proven point is California were they know the census is off by a large margin due to the hispanic population not filling them out due to fear of deportation....
so a census can only give you a portion of real statistics

So KG, if what you're saying is true, then wouldn't it also be true that the census UNDERESTIMATES the true number? I shudder to think how many other Hawai'i families are in the same situation as this one group of people.

Miulang

[kaneohegirl]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

one of my past life jobs was as a rental manager for a apt complex there was a formula that was used

2 ppl per bedroom 1 per unit= total # of ppl in apt MAX

example

2 bedroom apt you could have 5 ppl living there .... 2 ppl per bedroom x 2 bedrooms + 1 person per unit= 5 2x2=1=5

3 bedroom = 7 ppl.... again 2ppl per bedroom + 1 person per unit=7....2x3+1=7

that was it you could have less ppl but not more than the max. so if you have a absentee manager/owner who only cared about getting the rent they arent going to care until something like this happens because now his insurance will look at it harder. before paying out.

[kaneohegirl]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

So KG, if what you're saying is true, then wouldn't it also be true that the census UNDERESTIMATES the true number? I shudder to think how many other Hawai'i families are in the same situation as this one group of people.

Miulang

das what I was trying to make a point of.... just how MANY ppl are living this way. I know from experience. my family was pooooor. all we had was eachother. sad sometimes to think about it.

[kaneohegirl]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

I just learned about a very fascinating field of science called "proxemics", which measures the comfortable distance between people in various situations.

wow thats kinda cool I didnt know the name before. I know that this is taught in social sciences in schools/college. I also know that it can be a learned behavior.
example
here in america so many kids have their own rooms. so they have their space. and there are some kids that share their rooms with siblings.thus having to share....
take the "I have my own room" kid and stick them in a dorm room with a roomate and they have to learn to share, to respect personal space, and develope schedules to use things like the bathroom or have dates over. there are many tearful calls to home or fights that have to be settled in the dorm office.
where as the child that has had to share a room goes into it with a more open frame of mind knowing they have to share so they settle in easier and can cope better because they know how to share and respect space.

by the end of college the had thier own room kid has learned how to live with others in a close proximity.
the kid that shared room before was just glad to done with school!

so is it such a leap to think that a room could be wall to wall bunk beds? sleeping 4 -6 ppl in a room? Nah it can be dealt with ppl can learn to adjust.

[damontucker]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

Working in the DOE has enlightened me to just how many kids we have that are in the exact situation that Kaneohe Girl speaks of.

I would rather see them crowded in a safe ohana house than at the beach or parks.


Most of have driven by those houses built next to the going Ewa direction about 3/4 mile before the Bishop Museum... theres some pretty good size houses.... I bet theres plenty people that could fit in there as a family very comfortably.... and they each seem to have about 3-4 garages too.

That is not one of the most "wealthiest" neighborhoods if you know what I mean.

[Miulang]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

Just because there are lots of kids in the same situation doesn't mean that we should encourage that kind of overcrowding. It may be better "for them" than a life on the streets, but would we wish that kind of life on ourselves? I don't think so. But it's perfectly OK for others.

If you ever studied rats, you know that when the density in a cage gets to a certain level, the rats start turning on each other and hurting and killing each other until they sense they have enough "personal space". Humans are not rats, but psychologists study rat behavior all the time and try to extrapolate things from what they observe. Why are people who live in ghettos more likely to get killed or hurt than someone living in the suburbs or in a nicer part of town? Why, when a violent act is committed, do the authorities first suspect immediate family members? Why are more people killed by people they know than by total strangers?

Miulang

[kaneohegirl]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

so why will ppl build high rise condos for rich folks that might have 30 stories and 10 units per story that 300 units


but when affordable housing gets built its 3 maybe 4 stories= 40 units

because them type of ppl arent wanted.... but Ill take 10x as many ppl that are rich.... go figure

[Miulang]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

so why will ppl build high rise condos for rich folks that might have 30 stories and 10 units per story that 300 units


but when affordable housing gets built its 3 maybe 4 stories= 40 units

because them type of ppl arent wanted.... but Ill take 10x as many ppl that are rich.... go figure

The condo building I live in is the perfect size: 44 units on 4 floors, garage parking below, right up the hill from a town center and within walking distance of just about every amenity I need (including a McDs! ). I wouldn't want to live in a 300-unit development or cluster of buildings where you would never know your neighbor. That "noble experiment" was tried in places like Chicago (Cabrini Greens) where it created all kinds of social problems and is now abandoned and in the process of demolished to make way for smaller clusters of low income housing.

Miulang

[damontucker]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

The condo building I live in is the perfect size: 44 units on 4 floors, garage parking below, right up the hill from a town center and within walking distance of just about every amenity I need (including a McDs! ). I wouldn't want to live in a 300-unit development or cluster of buildings where you would never know your neighbor. That "noble experiment" was tried in places like Chicago (Cabrini Greens) where it created all kinds of social problems and is now abandoned and in the process of demolished to make way for smaller clusters of low income housing.

Miulang

I think you need to re-read auntie lynns Christmas wish...and see how a community benefited. Aunty tried a so called experiment w/ her community and outsiders (meaning... readers here on HT as well as some of aunties other connections" everyone pulled together to give slippers for the kids to that the so called kids of the cluster of buildings called MWH could have slippahs on their feet.

While many of us don't live in these conditions... many of us know of, have relatives, or are just a few paychecks from being in those kind of housing situations.

[Miulang]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

I think you need to re-read auntie lynns Christmas wish...and see how a community "outsiders... readers here on HT as well as some of aunties other connections" pulled together to give slippers to that the so called cluster of buildings called MWH!!!

While many of us don't live in these conditions... many of us know of, have relatives, or are just a few paychecks from being in those kind of housing situations.

Heheheheh. Yes, Manoa, I know. I was one of the Titas who also kokua'd.

You wanna read some horror stories about what it's like living in one of those low income skyscrapers? Read these stories about Cabrini Green in Chicago. I drove past there a few times. Talk about depressing and dangerous. This is the history of Cabrini-Green, and some pictures before and after "redevelopment" into a mixed income neighborhood.

MWH would be considered paradise to former residents of Cabrini Green, and it's because of people like Aunty Lynn, there is still some hope for the residents of MWH.

[1stwahine]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

Mahalo, Manoasurfer123 and Tita Muilang! Earlier this evening, I wrote a nasty post on da odda Forum I belong to. Regarding something that happen today where I live. I was pisst. (It's deleted)

After reading what you wrote I realized - I was wrong. Yes, there is HOPE. I nor my fellow neighbors must not give up. It is all within us to keep the fire alive and to reach for the dream to move out of Public Housing someday. In the meantime, we must build and come together to make our community safe for our children and ourselves.

Yes, we do have problems at MWH. Unfortunately, as I type this post - Illegal Drugs are being sold like candies on Pua Lane. On weekends, it is the norm to see Police Cars patrolling the areas due to Domestic Violence and other Criminal Activities.

However, as a resident here - I am never going to give up. I was earlier today. Not now. Yes, I plan to move out oneday. Until that time...this is my community. I shall fight with every breath and power I have in me to make my community safe!

K-den. This not my Blog.

I pau ventilate.

Auntie Lynn

[timkona]

Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

The trick to keeping those kinds of developments from becoming projects is to mix the uses. 1st floor - Big Retail 2,3,4 floor - office and retail....and then tiny studios, small 1 br, bigger 2 br, biggest 3 br, and penthouses.

When all the apartments are exactly the same, economic stratification becomes unavoidable.