Statehood Day Holiday

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

`Iolani Palace was built using approx. $365,000, 3 architects and over a period of about 5 years. The funds were government funds - there was no sale of land involved. `Iolani Palace was built to replace the original building which was built of wood and was termite eaten to the point of not being worth being renovated. The new Palace was built of stone. If someone wants measurements or building mediums, I can probably find that out.

To bad you weren't on one of MY tours - I wouldn't have ignored you. She probably didn't know the answer.

Just asking, where did "government funds" (especially big money) come from in the 1880s if not the sale of land?

Lets see, if inflation is 4% on average, rule of 72 says 18 years to double. Palace built about 126 years ago so it would have doubled 7 times.

If I do that math, then the cost of constrution of Iolani Palace in todays dollars is 42,720,000.

That does seem a bit excessive to me, no?

Anyway, my point is "government funds" came from somewhere and the big money seemed to have come from the sale of lands. I know much of that happened at the time of the Mahele and this was 30 years later but I don't see 42 million for "extra" projects coming from "taxes". I have no evidence, just my hunch as I think outloud.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Just asking, where did "government funds" (especially big money) come from in the 1880s if not the sale of land?

Lets see, if inflation is 4% on average, rule of 72 says 18 years to double. Palace built about 126 years ago so it would have doubled 7 times.

If I do that math, then the cost of constrution of Iolani Palace in todays dollars is 42,720,000.

That does seem a bit excessive to me, no?

Anyway, my point is "government funds" came from somewhere and the big money seemed to have come from the sale of lands. I know much of that happened at the time of the Mahele and this was 30 years later but I don't see 42 million for "extra" projects coming from "taxes". I have no evidence, just my hunch as I think outloud.

But $42M wasn't the sum required. $365K was. Don't use current estimates to put a value on historical sums. It's like using replacement value for your cost basis for an asset.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

implied/inferred darn, I never can keep those two words straight.

Here's how I keep 'em straight --- imply is outward, infer is inward. I can imply something out towards another person, or they can imply something out towards me. But as to how I read the message internally, that's when I infer something from what they said (or they can infer from what I said.)

Since I am picking up a signal INternally, I am INferring.

Okay, it's a weird mnemonic --- but if it helps...

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Your Nazi comparison means you don't deserve a response.

Says the man who once wrote:

When they come, you will be first on the train to the ovens.

[sinjin]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Imply is done with your own words. Infer is done with the words of another.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Hawaiians deserve their own self rule not the self rule dominated by Asian and Haole immigrants.

Ouch Kamuelakea..... Maybe that comparison to "Hawaiians erwache!" isn't so inappropriate after all. If Hawaiians want self rule they should VOTE. Nationalism of this type is EXACTLY what got a bunch of MY relatives sent to the ovens (nobody sent Hawaiians to concentration camps, but this cultural memory is strong with me since I've known more than a couple of people with serial numbers tattooed on their arms), and to not be willing to even conceive of accepting immigrants into your culture smacks of racism of the worst sort. I'm glad you've unveiled your true nature, hopefully I can change your worldview so that you can accept that we are all humans, we all happen to be living in Hawaii, and we really all should get along. What you propose as self-rule would be, in effect, domination of the many by the few, an oligarchy if you will. Please consider the full implications of what sounds to me to be a racist and poorly thought out philosophy.

Jewlipino

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Ouch Kamuelakea..... Maybe that comparison to "Hawaiians erwache!" isn't so inappropriate after all. If Hawaiians want self rule they should VOTE. Nationalism of this type is EXACTLY what got a bunch of MY relatives sent to the ovens (nobody sent Hawaiians to concentration camps, but this cultural memory is strong with me since I've known more than a couple of people with serial numbers tattooed on their arms), and to not be willing to even conceive of accepting immigrants into your culture smacks of racism of the worst sort. I'm glad you've unveiled your true nature, hopefully I can change your worldview so that you can accept that we are all humans, we all happen to be living in Hawaii, and we really all should get along. What you propose as self-rule would be, in effect, domination of the many by the few, an oligarchy if you will. Please consider the full implications of what sounds to me to be a racist and poorly thought out philosophy.

Jewlipino

Oh crap the shit hit the fan now...take cover everyone!

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

hehe DUCK AND COVER!!!!!

Jewlipino

[Paul]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I have to appologise for the nazi comparison. I didn't say all of the activists were acting like like nazis just some of them. In some of the posts here right in this forum, you can replace the words asian and haole with the word jew and they would be interchangeable with nazi propaganda.

[Bard]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I haven't posted on this because I haven't really felt qualified, but it's gotten me more interested in the topic now. Despite some of the anger being thrown around this has been a really educational thread for me. Mahalo!

This is an honest question, not trying to snark:

The overthrow, bayonet constitution, and all that, is pretty obviously wrong, at least by the high standards the US claims to adhere to. So let's assume we want to make things right and give the rule back to the rightful parties. Who is that exactly, at this point? Who was it even back then, when the actions took place? If Hawai'i is to become its own democratic republic or whatnot separate from the US, then why is that any better than the situation you have now? (With the obvious exception of being able to control the flow of mainland, would then be "foreign", dollars and land ownership...) It'd be rough to tell people who'd lived there for many generations that they can't vote because they don't have the proper bloodline; but if you don't do that, then you're pretty much back where you started. Something a lot of people in the US are learning about democracy is that popular elections don't guarantee someone you like in power after a demographic shift.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

But $42M wasn't the sum required. $365K was. Don't use current estimates to put a value on historical sums. It's like using replacement value for your cost basis for an asset.

Linkmeister, where did you receive your education? I went to Hawaii public schools.

Are you kidding? You don't know what you're talking about. There is a little something called inflation. 365K today is not 365K in 1885. To use 365K in a discussion about the "controversial" high cost of the palace construction would be either misleading, inaccurate or just a lie.

If you don't agree with this, then put your money where your mouth is and sell me your home for what it cost in, ohhhhh, lets say 1929. Bet you wouldn't do it because you really do understand inflation more than you realize.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Says the man who once wrote:
Originally Posted by kamuelakea
When they come, you will be first on the train to the ovens.

Leo Lakio, you need to learn how to read. I know its hard but really, if you're going to stick your neck out on a discussion board, it would really help.

I was suggesting to the individual(s) who were DEFENDING the innocent murder of men, women and children (kind of Nazi like), that if they are going to defend this type of behavior, may THEY be the first to suffer from their next attack.

In the context of that discussion, I meant what I said and I will repeat it.

But its easier for you to just take a comment out of context, isn't it Leo Lakio?

How can I have an intelligent discussion when I have to spend most of my time correcting my "opponents"?

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Ouch Kamuelakea..... Maybe that comparison to "Hawaiians erwache!" isn't so inappropriate after all. If Hawaiians want self rule they should VOTE. Jewlipino

Voting is nice. I like that. Math and history don't seem to be the best subjects for the posters on this thread.

How many Japanese are there in Hawaii?
How many Haoles are there in Hawaii?
How many Filipinos are there in Hawaii?
How many Hawaiians are there in Hawaii?

Hawaiians have been outnumbered by immigrants since the illegal overthrow.

The Jewelpino method of conquering territory that isn't yours:
Allow immigrants to overrun a particular area that you have no business being in and then, once you've got them outnumbered 10 to 1, call for a free and democratic vote? Great Idea. Wait a minute, that's not Hawaii I'm talking about, its Gaza, the West Bank. My you people all think in simalar ways dont you?

Curious, do you have the same suggestion to the 180 Native American Indian tribes that exist today? They should just get over it, shut up and VOTE? Great advice jewlipino. I can think of some advice that I've heard many give Isrealis if they really want peace but I won't repeat them, yet.

[damontucker]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Linkmeister, where did you receive you education? I went to Hawaii public schools.

Are you kidding? You don't know what you're talking about. There is a little something called inflation. 365K today is not 365K in 1885. To use 365K in a discussion about the "controversial" high cost of the palace construction would be either misleading, inaccurate or just a lie.

If you don't agree with this, then put your money where you mouth is and sell me your home for what it cost in, ohhhhh, lets say 1929. Bet you wouldn't do it because you really do understand inflation more that you realize.

You set yourself up for this one kamuela...

I wouldn't be proud to say that your from Hawaii's Public Schools... at least right now!

Did you see the scores in the paper the other day?

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Ouch Kamuelakea..... Nationalism of this type is EXACTLY what got a bunch of MY relatives sent to the ovens (nobody sent Hawaiians to concentration camps, but this cultural memory is strong with me since I've known more than a couple of people with serial numbers tattooed on their arms), and to not be willing to even conceive of accepting immigrants into your culture smacks of racism of the worst sort. Jewlipino

Jewlpino, quit crying about the Holocaust everytime you get in a debate. It cheapens the memory of your ancestors and the historical importance of the sad chapter in human history.

Calling for the rightful independence of a Hawaiian Nation for Hawaiian people is a far cry from calling for mass murder. How you make that quantum leap, I don't know.