Statehood Day Holiday

[1stwahine]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Ouch Kamuelakea..... Maybe that comparison to "Hawaiians erwache!" isn't so inappropriate after all.
Jewlipino

You are just as Crazy as Paul!

Oh crap the shit hit the fan now...take cover everyone!

I coming out of sedation medication. I will be back to address this with my full brain capacities.

Auntie Lynn

[timkona]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I was suggesting to the individual(s) who were DEFENDING the innocent murder of men, women and children (kind of Nazi like), that if they are going to defend this type of behavior, may THEY be the first to suffer from their next attack.

Some historical leaders are revered for their brutality in many cultures throughout the world. Kamehameha, Gengis Khan, Caesar, and many others have killed in the name of righteous reasons. It's all still killing.

Kam, I think I have heard you bark when Kamehameha is villified for obvious brutal behaviors.

Just more cognitive dissonance.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Kam, I think I have heard you bark when Kamehameha is villified for obvious brutal behaviors.

Just more cognitive dissonance.

Site it. I never defended Kamehameha's war crimes. I only defend the right of the population with a unique culture, unique values, unique language, unique physical characteristics, unique geography to self determination. Kamehameha's actions do not negate the right of the rest of the planet Earths Hawaiians to control their own destiny.

Might makes right is the law of the land, but America is based upon higher principles.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

The overthrow, bayonet constitution, and all that, is pretty obviously wrong, at least by the high standards the US claims to adhere to. So let's assume we want to make things right and give the rule back to the rightful parties. Who is that exactly, at this point? Who was it even back then, when the actions took place?

That is the question smart people ask. That is the queston Timkona should be asking. Not if but who?

Depends who you ask. In my opinion, Hawaiian means 100% Hawaiian. There might be 1000 of them left. Some might argue to dilute that, so fine, lets say 50% Hawaiian.

Anyone less than 50% Hawaiian has more non-Hawaiian ancestors than Hawaiian (including me), so to me they don't count.


That's where the anti-Sovereignty arguements should be directed if you ask me. Its WHO not If. That's the problem with the Akaka Bill. Anyone with one toenail drop is considered a Hawaiian. To me that doesn't serve the purpose of perpetuating Hawaiians.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

If Hawai'i is to become its own democratic republic or whatnot separate from the US, then why is that any better than the situation you have now?

Depends what you mean by "better" and for who.

Hawaiians have lived happily for thousands of years in Hawaii prior to the "situation (we) have now". Not everyone needs the material things Americans need. Hawaiians lived their way for thousands of years. Americans have lived their way for only a few hundred. There is no question which culture PRODUCES more and CONSUMES more. But which culture is a "better situation"? I don't know.

[damontucker]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

That is the question smart people ask. That is the queston Timkona should be asking. Not if but who?

Depends who you ask. In my opinion, Hawaiian means 100% Hawaiian. There might be 1000 of them left. Some might argue to dilute that, so fine, lets say 50% Hawaiian.

Anyone less than 50% Hawaiian has more non-Hawaiian ancestors than Hawaiian (including me), so to me they don't count.


That's where the anti-Sovereignty arguements should be directed if you ask me. Its WHO not If. That's the problem with the Akaka Bill. Anyone with one toenail drop is considered a Hawaiian. To me that doesn't serve the purpose of perpetuating Hawaiians.

Anyone less than 50% Hawaiian has more non-Hawaiian ancestors than Hawaiian (including me), so to me they don't count.

You tell that to my 2 year old son who is 25% Hawaiian... he's going to kick you in the shin! (at least on my demand )

[Linkmeister]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Linkmeister, where did you receive your education? I went to Hawaii public schools.

Are you kidding? You don't know what you're talking about. There is a little something called inflation. 365K today is not 365K in 1885. To use 365K in a discussion about the "controversial" high cost of the palace construction would be either misleading, inaccurate or just a lie.

If you don't agree with this, then put your money where your mouth is and sell me your home for what it cost in, ohhhhh, lets say 1929. Bet you wouldn't do it because you really do understand inflation more than you realize.

The amount of money required in 1885 was $365K, not the $42M you're claiming would have to have come from taxes.

The inflation-adjusted amount you talk about is completely irrelevant to the source of funds needed at the time of construction.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

The amount of money required in 1885 was $365K, not the $42M you're claiming would have to have come from taxes.

The inflation-adjusted amount you talk about is completely irrelevant to the source of funds needed at the time of construction.

You are a fool. Can I buy your home at 1885 prices? Just let me know.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Angry aren't we? OK deep breath everyone ('specially you Kamuelakea).... what were we talking about again?

Jewlipino

[Linkmeister]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Angry aren't we? OK deep breath everyone ('specially you Kamuelakea).... what were we talking about again?

Jewlipino

Nah, I'm not mad. I'm amused. Our friend K raised the question as follows:

Just asking, where did "government funds" (especially big money) come from in the 1880s if not the sale of land?

.

But then throws in bafflegab about inflation adjustments to bring the cost up to today. It's completely irrelevant to his (her?) question: What was the source of the funds in 1885?

[anapuni808]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Here's how I keep 'em straight --- imply is outward, infer is inward. I can imply something out towards another person, or they can imply something out towards me. But as to how I read the message internally, that's when I infer something from what they said (or they can infer from what I said.)

Since I am picking up a signal INternally, I am INferring.

Okay, it's a weird mnemonic --- but if it helps...

Cool - thank you!

[Jewlipino]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Jewlpino, quit crying about the Holocaust everytime you get in a debate. It cheapens the memory of your ancestors and the historical importance of the sad chapter in human history.

Calling for the rightful independence of a Hawaiian Nation for Hawaiian people is a far cry from calling for mass murder. How you make that quantum leap, I don't know.

Doesn't change the fact that your reasoning is frighteningly similar. People move, demographics change, Hawaii's location at the center of the Pacific Ocean made it a natural center for cultural exchange and colonization. Given the history of the past 20 years it is painfully apparent that focus on the issue of land has impeded attempts by Hawaiian Nationalists to have their, sometimes, very reasonable requests met. The feudal-tenurial system that Queen Ka'ahumanu and her party subverted followed the same course (very abbreviated tho) that led feudal England to land ownership as we know it today. It is fair to say that it is the Hawaiians themselves that initiated the change since they were the only ones in a position to do so. In essence the modern Hawaiian Nationalists are second-guessing the decisions made by their forebears, and to justify their questioning philosophies that have undercurrents of racism are brought to bear. I ask you this, Kamuelakea, "If a person of caucasian descent, lived as a traditional Hawaiian in EVERY way, lived in the State of Hawaii, had been born in Hawaii, was raised in Hawaiian ways, and spoke Hawaiian, would you distinguish between them and a Hawaiian of the blood?"

Jewlipino

[TuNnL]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

It is fair to say that it is the Hawaiians themselves that initiated the change since they were the only ones in a position to do so. In essence the modern Hawaiian Nationalists are second-guessing the decisions made by their forebears, and to justify their questioning philosophies that have undercurrents of racism are brought to bear. I ask you this, Kamuelakea, "If a person of caucasian descent, lived as a traditional Hawaiian in EVERY way, lived in the State of Hawaii, had been born in Hawaii, was raised in Hawaiian ways, and spoke Hawaiian, would you distinguish between them and a Hawaiian of the blood?"

Would a caucasian born and raised in Japan and who can write kanji be considered Japanese? Would a black man born and raised in Ireland be considered Irish? Would a South Korean born and raised in captivity in North Korea and who speaks Korean be considered North Korean? Would a Bosnian born and raised in Serbia be considered Serbian?

Yet another example of Jewlipino ignorance. I didn’t even address your Nationalist point, but I’m sure someone will. Ask a stupid question ...

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

I ask you this, Kamuelakea, "If a person of caucasian descent, lived as a traditional Hawaiian in EVERY way, lived in the State of Hawaii, had been born in Hawaii, was raised in Hawaiian ways, and spoke Hawaiian, would you distinguish between them and a Hawaiian of the blood?"

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway.

YES.

Donkey.

[tikiyaki]

Re: Statehood Day Holiday

Would a black man born and raised in Ireland be considered Irish?

As a matter of Fact, yes. Phil Lynott (R.I.P) from Thin Lizzy was Black / Irish. And he was very proud of his Irish heritage.