Thielen vs. Akaka

[damontucker]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

So Dave...

Since Akaka appears to be "scared" to debate with your mother...

If she publicly joined HT we could all ask her direct questions and she could gain a lot of support...(or lose support depending on her answers I guess)

Just a suggestion...however, I would suggest this to all potential politicians and make yourself as public as possible.

(and you can call me Manoa)

[Keanu]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

Whenever I listen to Akaka speak, it sounds real clear to me that having your wits about you does not matter in Hawaii Politics.

Are you kidding? What about South Carolina politics? wasn't Strom Thurmond serving the State of South Carolina as its Senior Senator at a hundred years of age?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

Thanks, Dave. I appreciate the honesty of your responses. (And thanks for your perspective too, TuNnL.)

I'm not a resident of Hawai`i, not a voter there, and not as familiar with all the candidates either, so the political discussions on HT can be very revealing for me.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

You know, I was saying this evening that if I didn't so desperately want the Democrats to re-take the Senate, I could vote for Dave's mother quite easily. Her positions are like the ones the old sensible Republican party (the Rockefeller Republicans) used to hold, or seem to be.

I can't vote strategically like Dave suggests, because I just don't want to take the chance that the Senate ends up 51-49 R, or even worse, 50-50 with Cheney casting the tiebreaking votes.

Also, she'd vote for a Republican Majority Leader, and after Frist, we've seen how that works out.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

Howzit Mr. Thielen,

As I pointed out in the beginning of this discussion, your mom can never win because of ethinic and racial realities in Hawaii. She seems like a really smart and nice lady and I would have no complaint if she did win, but if you know Hawaii you know she cannot win.

So Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death, but mostly give me more than a 1 party system in Hawaii.

[MadAzza]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

So Dave...

Since Akaka appears to be "scared" to debate with your mother...

If she publicly joined HT we could all ask her direct questions and she could gain a lot of support...(or lose support depending on her answers I guess)

Manoa:

1. It's too late in the race for anyone to start campaigning on Hawaii Threads (that's HT for short, Dave). And she hardly has time to start answering questions here during the last 3 days of the election season.

2. It's far too easy to be misunderstood on HT, judging by how often the simplest comment or observation is misunderstood or delilberately twisted into something it was never intended to be. Why should anyone risk that?

3. Political Web forums generally have an abundance of partisans who really don't want information, they just want to yell and scream.

If I were running for office, or in office, I'd stay the hell away from HT and every other Web-based forum.

Aloha, Dave!

[TuNnL]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

If I were running for office, or in office, I'd stay the hell away from HT and every other Web-based forum.

You had me until this part, Maddie. While I agree Mānoa’s suggestion was rediculous, I can’t help thinking your SB connection biases your opinion on web-based forums. After all, the Advertiser is kicking SB’s @ss in this department, so you have every reason to poo-poo it.

[DavidThi808]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

Hi all;

One of the unexpected things I learned being involved in the running of a campaign is how incredibly valuable the candidates time is. From the outside you see the appearances they make and assume that is it.

From the inside, nothing, absolutely nothing, is more valuable than the candidates time. She has to develop the positions (they're her positions, not those of the staff or polls) and to do that well takes time to think and discuss. She has to raise money and people writing checks for a couple of hundred and up want to talk to the candidate. She has to work out what she is going to do where and prepare for it.

And the problem with the candidate talking on forums and/or blogs is it rapidly leads to either gotcha questions (like Poinography's) which are of no help or they are ones like "which biodiesel fuel do you prefer" which would require a boatload of research time to answer. Which takes us back to, the most valuable item in the campaign is the candidates time and responding to those questions aren't the best use of it.

So you get me. But I hope I'm better than nothing.

[DavidThi808]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

I'ld like to respond to a couple of comments above:

Hawaii is a 1 party state. Yes it is, until enough people vote for Republicans that they start winning. If you want a 2 party state, just to keep the Democratic party honest if nothing else, then vote for Cynthia, tell your friends to vote for Cynthia, grab people on the street and tell them to vote for her. Because odds are she will lose but if she comes very very close, then you have the start of a 2 party state.

Race trumps all. Yes it does, until enough people vote for the best candidate. And then the state has moved past that. Same as above - this election can be a step forward. Things don't become perfect instantly but they do improve.

I like your mom but... You're not going to agree with everything she does. That is true of any candidate. But with her you do get someone who will work her okole off for the state and the country and do so very effectively. She will be a Senator that Hawaii and the country will be proud of.

Just don't assume the election is already decided. Because the decision is in the hands of each and every one of you. The only person here who does not get to decide is me as I live in Colorado. (So if one of you is undecided, please cast my vote for my mom.)

thanks - dave

[poinographer]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

You're blinded by your filial loyalty, Dave. My question is only a "gotcha" to the extent that your mother won't address it.

If she and you want people in Hawaii to start "reforming" the Hawaii GOP, then wouldn't it help in that respect to know if the Hawaii GOP leaders that selected her were aware of and/or support your mother's call to remove Rumsfeld?

No time? Bah. You're telling me she never sleeps? It would take 2 minutes of that sleep time and she could answer the question. Running out the clock is an answer in and of itself, and it is probably not the answer she'd like the voters to believe. Set the record straight, please.

[pzarquon]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

As someone who's considering voting for Thielen (whatever good that would do), I'm very dissapointed in David Thielen's evasiveness and defensiveness and Cynthia Thielen's silence on what has been a simple, straightforward, longstanding question.

I mean, c'mon. A "gotcha" question? Thielen's opposition to Rumsfeld is a key aspect in her campaign that's mentioned in basically any analysis of the race. It seems pretty relevant to me whether that position was known by the local G.O.P. before her selection. Was it (1.) known but something that wasn't a deal-breaker (along with her pro-choice stance, pro-environment record, yada yadea yada), (2.) a complete surprise, and a problem given Lingle's fealty to Bush, or (3.) something the local G.O.P. is actually trying to float through her, since no one else could say it publicly?

David Thielen's comment about blogs and forums is also disappointing, since I thought a key element of Cynthia Thielen's campaign was being more technically and netroots savvy (especially given the DailyKos link). Clearly the blog and online "outreach" is just for show, since he's now saying now that they're not worth the time. People blogging in support of Cynthia Thielen? Sure. But people asking questions? That's a hornet's nest of sneaky questions and meaningless minutiae that needs to be written off.

I'm not saying HawaiiThreads neccessarily deserves direct engagement (and I suppose David Thielen's posts here count for something, even if they just repeat what's already on the website more than actually respond), but the basic outlook definitely changes my view of the Thielen campaign. Good thing I didn't make it to City Hall yesterday, 'cause I definitely need 'til Tuesday to decide on this one.

Think about this, Dave. Doug posed the question a long while ago. Rather than giving a simple question a simple answer, you've now expended ten times the time and energy to instead try and explain why it hasn't been answered. And your explanation is... not having enough time? Something seriously doesn't add up.

[scrivener]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

Well, I voted this morning as soon as the doors opened at City Hall, and Lloyd Mallan got my vote. Surprise! "Akaka vs. Thielen" indeed!

[DavidThi808]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

...It would take 2 minutes of that sleep time and she could answer the question. Running out the clock is an answer in and of itself, and it is probably not the answer she'd like the voters to believe. Set the record straight, please.

It's different from inside the campaign that what is seen outside. it's not that simple. Was what was said at the meeting considered confidential? It's not clear so she would have to ask the others if they viewed it as confidential. And if so, if they are ok with this question being asked.

You are also welcome to go ask her yourself. She has been everywhere in Hawaii. You can probably get more time with her than I do. Or you could ask Governor Lingle as she also is having lots of campaign appearances.

I try to answer questions honestly here instead of using the standard political brush-off. You may not like the answer but at least you are getting it straight. And in this case I think she is reasonable in saying that answering this question is not worth the time it would take to touch base with each person at the meeting. Because the answer is an interesting one about the Republican party in Hawaii - but it's not terribly interesting about my mom as a candidate as it not about her, it's about others.

[DavidThi808]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

David Thielen's comment about blogs and forums is also disappointing, since I thought a key element of Cynthia Thielen's campaign was being more technically and netroots savvy (especially given the DailyKos link). Clearly the blog and online "outreach" is just for show, since he's now saying now that they're not worth the time. People blogging in support of Cynthia Thielen? Sure. But people asking questions? That's a hornet's nest of sneaky questions and meaningless minutiae that needs to be written off.

As I said in my previous post, I am giving direct honest answers and yes those tend to be a bit more disappointing. But as everyone here knows, blogging eats up a dispraportionate amount of time. Look at any candidate and you will see that their efforts on the web are almost entirely one way (as is my moms).

You will also find some (and it is actually very few) where someone in the core of the campaign does actively respond as I do. My point was not that the blogosphere is unimportant to my mom - but that a candidate, at least a successful one in a competitive race, cannot respond on it. Because of the time it takes.

So you get me answering as best as I can. But if I don't know the answer all I can do is ask my mom and hope she has time to answer it. And in most cases she does not. Please keep in mind that it was only 4 weeks ago that this whole thing started for her.

Think about this, Dave. Doug posed the question a long while ago. Rather than giving a simple question a simple answer, you've now expended ten times the time and energy to instead try and explain why it hasn't been answered. And your explanation is... not having enough time? Something seriously doesn't add up.

I have the time, my mom does not. I also relax by writing so a lot of my time on the blogs is actually my down time. And the other part is it's not simple to go ask others in a private meeting if it's ok to talk about this part. Especially as the others may have trouble recalling what exactly, if anything, was discussed on this subject.

And I will be honest that I only asked twice and was told both times she was too busy right then. Since then I have been hitting her with other questions. So for that you can blame me.

But you also have the option of asking her or Governor Lingle at any campaign stop. They're both all over Hawaii right now. And I know my mom - if you come up to here, she will be happy to talk to you. So either of you can go ask directly.

[DavidThi808]

Re: Thielen vs. Akaka

If she and you want people in Hawaii to start "reforming" the Hawaii GOP, then wouldn't it help in that respect to know if the Hawaii GOP leaders that selected her were aware of and/or support your mother's call to remove Rumsfeld?

I just reread this and I think I can answer that specific question above. I think the odds are very good (I was not at the meeting and I did not ask my mom this) that removing Rumsfeld did not come up. I say this because adding that to her Iraq position paper occured well in to the process of developing it.

The way the position paper was developed was with her talking to a number of us about what she saw happening there, and getting feedback from others. The paper went through a ton of drafts as with each drafts we would all bring up questions/problems/inconsistencies.

It was well in to this process when the idea of being specific as to who should be fired rather than just say "those responsible" came up. And it was my mom who said she didn't want the standard vague statement but instead wanted to name those that are in charge.

Based on the above, it is unlikely that Rumsfeld's name came up beforehand. I also would find it strange if they dived that deep into her policies.

I apologize, I thought you were asking if her policy on Iraq had come up in the meeting and if so, what specifically was said.