Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

No offense to Manoa's ohana but we are talking about objects not bones.
and it has never been established that ALL the artifacts are burial items. in part what's being argued is why should Hui Malama continue to have sole discretion over what is and what is not a burial item. even native archaeologists, anthropologists, and many kupuna have taken different positions on this. unlike egyptians, kanaka maole did not usually bury their dead with a lot of objects. maybe kapa, a bowl or two. phds say that large finds are probably from just after kaahumanu broke the kapu. priests could not bring themselves to destroy what had for generations been considered sacred, so they hid these things in caves.

whether we agree or not, shouldn't we listen to the older generation, the people who are native speakers who didn't learn their hawaiian from a book at a university? they know their family traditions and rituals and when they asked Hui Malama to step aside and let their ohana handle repatriation of their iwi, they were disrespected. this is a major part of the pilikia. the hawaiians who are loudest in crying out disrespect, are the very ones who have brought disrespect to the ancestors of other hawaiians. listen to what Laakea Suganuma and the kupuna say. it is not easy to stomach but it's sadly true.

Swallow it:

Both of my grandparents are living, in their 80's, quite lucid, and are also descended from those in that cave. They are both of the very strong, informed, and spiritually-driven opinion that what is from a burial cave must remain in a burial cave. That Forbes was hewa. And that the "debate" on what is moepu is semantical and driven by greed.

As for your statement about "crying out disrespect", you may include them in this....but as for the rest of your sentence, it is blatantly hewa.

[candyglassy@gmail.com]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Swallow it:

Both of my grandparents are living, in their 80's, quite lucid, and are also descended from those in that cave. ..
As for your statement about "crying out disrespect", you may include them in this....but as for the rest of your sentence, it is blatantly hewa.

Ok, here we go. No disrespect to your elders. This is what too often
happens. We're talking about one or two specifics of a complex
issue and then it becomes a personal insult. Non intended.
Your grandparents' claim to the forbes collection must mean that you are ohana to Abigail kawananakoa? That you trace your lineage to this site?

I was taught that hewa was to know the truth yet speak falsely.
I did not do this.

Have you ever heard the Waikiki ohana on how Hui Malama treated their ancestral bones? Do you stand with this organization knowing how they treat kupuna disrespectfully? Some of our most revered elders like Pat Namaka Bacon, daughter of Mary Kawena Pukui and Isabela Abbott, the stanford scholar who is a native speaker in her 80s like your
grandparents and many others in our community who have until now,
remained silent ... They know the truth. They know that fully aware of what they were doing Hui Malama delivered bone fragments mixed from other sites and the Waikiki iwi, put them all together purposely and left them in boxes at a state office. Are these the Hawaiians you want to entrust with your ohana's remains and burial items? Do you want them to decide for you how history is written and re-written to fit their politics?

Eddie Ayau worked with Senator Inouye and now he's doesn't acknowledge "western laws" and accuses colleagues who he once worked closely with, of not being capable of understanding him because he is kanaka maole and they were born with different color skin?

We need to look further, past the controversy of this forbes issue.

[damontucker]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Ok, here we go. No disrespect to your elders. This is what too often
happens. We're talking about one or two specifics of a complex
issue and then it becomes a personal insult. Non intended.
Your grandparents' claim to the forbes collection must mean that you are ohana to Abigail kawananakoa? That you trace your lineage to this site?

I was taught that hewa was to know the truth yet speak falsely.
I did not do this.

Have you ever heard the Waikiki ohana on how Hui Malama treated their ancestral bones? Do you stand with this organization knowing how they treat kupuna disrespectfully? Some of our most revered elders like Pat Namaka Bacon, daughter of Mary Kawena Pukui and Isabela Abbott, the stanford scholar who is a native speaker in her 80s like your
grandparents and many others in our community who have until now,
remained silent ... They know the truth. They know that fully aware of what they were doing Hui Malama delivered bone fragments mixed from other sites and the Waikiki iwi, put them all together purposely and left them in boxes at a state office. Are these the Hawaiians you want to entrust with your ohana's remains and burial items? Do you want them to decide for you how history is written and re-written to fit their politics?

Eddie Ayau worked with Senator Inouye and now he's doesn't acknowledge "western laws" and accuses colleagues who he once worked closely with, of not being capable of understanding him because he is kanaka maole and they were born with different color skin?

We need to look further, past the controversy of this forbes issue.

OMG... you are so mis-informed...

Now I just have to laugh at some of your thoughts and beliefs.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Ok, here we go. No disrespect to your elders. This is what too often
happens. We're talking about one or two specifics of a complex
issue and then it becomes a personal insult. Non intended.
Your grandparents' claim to the forbes collection must mean that you are ohana to Abigail kawananakoa? That you trace your lineage to this site?

I was taught that hewa was to know the truth yet speak falsely.
I did not do this.

Have you ever heard the Waikiki ohana on how Hui Malama treated their ancestral bones? Do you stand with this organization knowing how they treat kupuna disrespectfully? Some of our most revered elders like Pat Namaka Bacon, daughter of Mary Kawena Pukui and Isabela Abbott, the stanford scholar who is a native speaker in her 80s like your
grandparents and many others in our community who have until now,
remained silent ... They know the truth. They know that fully aware of what they were doing Hui Malama delivered bone fragments mixed from other sites and the Waikiki iwi, put them all together purposely and left them in boxes at a state office. Are these the Hawaiians you want to entrust with your ohana's remains and burial items? Do you want them to decide for you how history is written and re-written to fit their politics?

Eddie Ayau worked with Senator Inouye and now he's doesn't acknowledge "western laws" and accuses colleagues who he once worked closely with, of not being capable of understanding him because he is kanaka maole and they were born with different color skin?

We need to look further, past the controversy of this forbes issue.

As a Hawaiian, I was taught not to dry out my bones.

But being called out to "dry it" like you just did, yes. If Abigail Kawananakoa is with whom you wish I should measure lineage, then yes, we both descend from Kekaulike (she from his wife Holau, me from his wife Keku'iapoiwa). Whence their son Ka'eo comes the Princess™, and from Kalani'opu'u comes this humble servant.

These are not our only two connections to "ali'i" and she and I do not comprise the majority of descendants. My lineage is from Hamakua, Waimea and Kohala.

As for speaking hewa, yes you did. Your's was a sweeping generalization upon those Hawaiians "crying disrespect". I blinked and reread it several times:

the hawaiians who are loudest in crying out disrespect, are the very ones who have brought disrespect to the ancestors of other hawaiians.

Either you've little control upon the keyboard and typed blithely, or you knew exactly what this phrase means, and met the definition of hewa. My grandparents are just one set of kupuna I know who have written letters to our senators, Lingle, Aiona, made phone calls to whoever will listen, and genuinely wring their hands at this situation. Ever since the ka'ai was taken out of the museum and hidden, they have held the opinion that ~we~ are not the future of something as mortal as a museum. Our mana lies in us, from yesterday until tomorrow.

This issue is a *painful* one for many of our families. I don't think you have any idea how small those "six degrees of separation" exist between the sides/factions/litigants. Really, this is Hawaii; it is more like "six degrees of integration". And while I do not purport to be the official spokesperson® of the bones issue, I am quite attached to it on more than a few levels.

I mean you no malice. I truly don't. I will remove myself from this discussion, because it is too dear to me. I try to hold myself to a personal standard of emotional maturity, but sometimes the visceral reaction is the pono one.

me ke aloha, Pua'i

[damontucker]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

a quiet moment in this thread???

Hope everyone is content with what is going on...

I'm not in the position now to speak on the subject, however, I would
love to keep this thread alive for discussion.

[Miulang]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Auwe! The ho'oponopono that was ordered by Judge Ezra earlier this year to try to break the stalemate between the various kanaka maoli factions over the Forbes Cave artifacts has been broken and although progress appears to have been made, the decision over where the artifacts belong now reverts back to the courts.

Miulang

[Jonah K]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Auwe! The ho'oponopono that was ordered by Judge Ezra earlier this year to try to break the stalemate between the various kanaka maoli factions over the Forbes Cave artifacts has been broken and although progress appears to have been made, the decision over where the artifacts belong now reverts back to the courts.

Miulang

I'm not surprised. Nainoa Thompson and Earl Kawa'a weren't really qualified enough to handle Auntie Kekau. If Auntie Gladys (Gladys Kamakakuokalani 'Ainoa Brandt) were still alive, the outcome would have been different.

[alohabear]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

I for one, am glad the the objects were recovered . Like the article says ....What now? What do you think should happen to the artifacts now?

I believe they should be safe guarded by the museum forever, since no one really knows(only what they believe) what cave they came from.

[damontucker]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

It's a sad day for many that are close to this issue....and have family ties to these bones. It may be a happy day for some in the community...but those that have are close to the Ohana or part of it... are not happy today!

[Miulang]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

I for one, am glad the the objects were recovered . Like the article says ....What now? What do you think should happen to the artifacts now?

I believe they should be safe guarded by the museum forever, since no one really knows(only what they believe) what cave they came from.

As long as the Museum has no intention of exhibiting the hewa, I suppose it's a safe place to keep them until all the different hui with vested interests in the objects have had a chance to decide among themselves what the proper disposition of the artifacts should be. Eventually, I would prefer that the kanaka maoli regain ownership of the artifacts. But in the meantime, I would not want them to be exhibited to the general public.

Miulang

[Jonah K]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

It's a sad day for many that are close to this issue....and have family ties to these bones. It may be a happy day for some in the community...but those that have are close to the Ohana or part of it... are not happy today!

Hmm... I beg to differ. I have family ties to at least seven of the artifacts that Hui Malama stole and "repatriated" to the "Forbes Cave" and hopefully all of them they were recovered in good condition. The iwi that were found in the cave are another matter....

Until all of this is sorted out, the Bishop Museum is probably the best place to preserve the artifacts.

[damontucker]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Gee... I think you maybe related to my wife then...

But sheesh... who in Puna isn't related to one another somehow?

[Jonah K]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Gee... I think you maybe related to my wife then...

But sheesh... who in Puna isn't related to one another somehow?

I just changed my primary residence from Kona to Pāhoa within the past couple of years. Despite a lengthy history on O'ahu, the Big Island (primarily Kona and Kohala), and in California, my 'ohana is originally from Kaua'i. As far as I know, I'm the first member of my 'ohana to reside in Puna for an extended period of time.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

I just changed my primary residence from Kona to Pāhoa within the past couple of years. Despite a lengthy history on O'ahu, the Big Island (primarily Kona and Kohala), and in California, my 'ohana is originally from Kaua'i. As far as I know, I'm the first member of my 'ohana to reside in Puna for an extended period of time.

I'm definately not related to Jonah K and I live in Puna as well. I wish I were then I'd have at least an ounce of Hawaiian in me.

[damontucker]

Re: Hui ordered to return objects to Bishop Museum

Jonah... thanks for the info... the reason I asked and thought... was because we all are eventually tied to them in some way some how. From this post... I automatically assumed that you might be related to my wifes family.

Would it be too much to ask what your lineage is to the "artifacts" and/or Iwi.

You may pm me... I understand this is a touchy issue...and believe me... I don't know why I'm getting into this... I just wanted to say that it hurts inside for those that are close to the situation to know whats going on...

(TK... step down... I'm speaking from my heart)

In all seriousness... this is not a post I enjoy being on... I'm married to my wife and once you marry a hawaiian... your'e married to the whole ohana.