King Kamehameha's Club?!

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

...and he runs right into hell.

Why this is hell, nor am I out of it.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

Why this is hell, nor am I out of it.

thus the question begs,

why doest thou duck in da first place?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

they do not do this to honor Kamehameha.

And I keep looking for the comic-strip pinhead whenever I go eat chili at you-know-where's (locations throughout Hawai`i.)

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

why doest thou duck in da first place?

For he is truly Daffy.

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

I don't even think they had Magnum on their minds.

they did. they do. Germans love the show. This was named after Rick's fictional club he managed in the show.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

they did. they do. Germans love the show. This was named after Rick's fictional club he managed in the show.

aw shit. Ok, the answer is clear. They must die. Slowly. To the beat of those Hawai'i 5-0 drums.

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

no, yer thinkin bout da bruddah's theme which got da drums within their rendition of how are ya, five, oh!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

You have nothing to worry about, unless the drums stop beating...














...then comes bass solo.

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

yea but it was solo, I actually didn't hear it..

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

yea but it was solo, I actually didn't hear it..

Maybe Kuryakin can help.

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

Far be it for me to jump up on my soapbox.
Cuz I just don't do that.
But if I were to, here's how the conversation might go....

>There now is a gigantic nightclub in Frankfurt, Germany, called the King Kamehameha Club, named after the Magnum P.I. location in the show, that a buncha haoles ran.

this is not cool. many locals will have much to say about this.
naming a german pub after one of the most revered personages of Polynesian history and of Hawaiian ali'i nui lineage?
da hell's the connection again? How is it justified?
naaah. something is wrong with that picture.


>I do not see any harm.

Of course you do not see any harm
The requisite cultural sensitivity and education in the defamation of revered historical icons has not reached enough people's minds yet.
enjoy it while you can.


>I'm insulted when people say such a name insults those who we in fact, actually salute with it. To decry naming a club in Germany or anywhere else the King Kamehameha Club or require a justification or connection is very wrong.* If I opened a bar* I might very well name it the King Kamehameha Club. However, would I have the right?* Excluding something like copyright infringement, absolutely! The correct response to any honor such as a salute is the positive acknowledgement we render by saying "Thank you."

Your considering it a salute, does not mean those that have revered, and can call King Kamehameha one of their own, for so many decades, must consider it so, too.
The appropriation of other cultural icons is so widespread in america, it is seen as commonplace and therefore perfectly appropriate. To the degree, we americans, the conquerers that we are so proud to think of ourselves as, will, and even MUST... justify our denigration of another land's icons.
Especially if we want to take it and spend it, use it, for own own entertainment.

You speak of 'copyright infringement'. Hawaii and Hawaiians are the copyright holders of their own cultural icons. Thus, the exploitation and commercial use of them against their wishes constitutes 'copyright infringement'.

I have worked at heiau with carvers, reconditioning the ki'i on a few occasions... while one day, during our work, a tourist and his two kids stepped over the chain, passing the "Kapu - do not enter" sign., I said: Step away. do not cross the threshold.

The father replied:
"Hey. we are only looking!"
arguing against the requirement, needs, parameters set up by someone else, and he argues it... In front of his own kids?! What a creep! Of course, he could have further argued; "Hey, I am suh-LOOT-ing... your cultural icons. THIS is how we do it in america."
(and, of course, ya don't wanna get me started on how we islanders ab-sol-LUTE-lee hate it when we are told by some pushy arrogant tourist how they do it on the mainland. And we hear it all too often. And when we say, wait just a doggone minute, we are asccused of bashing the great big benefactor grandaddy nation.)
(and... Obviously I am not saying this as a generalization of tourists; many a kindly respectful visitor have I met, but the few tend to spoil it for the many.)


Having the 'right' to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
Just because one has the perception you have a "right" do do something, does NOT make it right, you shouldn't go right ahead and do it. Just because the american legal system allows it, because it may be seen as NOT illegal, does NOT mean go ahead and do it regardless of any other consequences or repercussions.
Even though the patent and trademark office is incredibly backwards and very ignorant and unsupportive of cultural intellectual cultural property rights, does not mean ya gotta shoot first and whatever it hit, is the target. Get it in there before anyone claims this is their own. Does not justify putting up a billboard saying "Buy Kamehameha Beer" just cus no one else is marketing Kamehameha Beer. There may be a very good reason why!

Just ask an islander how much they care when an american's feelings are hurt when that american "salutes" Hawaiian iconography and we don't respond with a "omigawd! lemmeee lick yer boot!".
Go ahead. ask.

We here are also told TOO often "the correct response to america coming here and taking your land and turning it into another El Lay and giving you cars, tall condo towers, exorbitant property taxes, overly inflated real estate prices (forcing many kama'aina from their own lands), big city crime and all that, is a simple "thank you".

No. nonononono. but we will reply with something that sounds similar if ya say it fast.


>Who in the hell holds a copyright on King Kamehameha?

That is a purdy dayum disrespectful way tuh allude to people you haven't even met, pilgrum!

Well, firstly, his descendants, of course, would own the copyright.
Secondly, the Hawaiian people.


> how come, in the show, the club's labor force is mostly Hawaiian but the manager (Rick) and the board of directors are all well-off white guys?


Yes, for the sake of the 80's Magnum P.I. show, KKC was an important fixture... plot device... prop... whatevaz.

And to see it run by a British twit, would be unheard of in real life. All apologies to Higgy baby and John Hillerman. one of the most able and accomplished actors, one of my favorites... to convey SUCH a great brit twit, being a 'texan" says alot.
But that in essence is... what he is in the show and we would here, have none of that, were it an actuality. His yelling at people on the beach, with his bullhorn, as i point out before... this kinda thing would not happen in Hawaii. I have lamented the absurdity of a buncha church ladies led by a stiff uppuh lip brit reading "we will no more go a roaming... " in a waimanalo back yard.

As for the KCC, IF this existed in real life, it would be full of many kama'aina of mixed race and the club, full of mixed races... If ya know whudda mean.
Its membership would be constituted of many who are characterised as well off locals of all color, as well as an equal amount of not at all well off local colorful characters. There we would meet many of the old time beachboys. (and you KNOW I am not talking about those warbling haoles with striped shirts in cali.) and we would see many 'members' who fall into the 'in-between'. It would be a healthy mix, cuz everyone is ohana here to a such a degree that is unknown elsewhere, as are, obviously many other island concepts.


Some dude like Higgy baby may have a small part to play in the management, but he would not run it with such an anal retentive slant. he would be acquiescent the casual laid back way of running a club such as that. In such a manner as we do things here. And definitely not raise such hell as we see that made so many eps exciting and colorful.
So, my bitch about the KCC is if it were real, it would definitely be an homage, a type of obeisance to a great degree, to our King of ages past. It would contain many portraits of King Kamehameha. It would definitely, most emphatically NOT feature shirts with a haole profile. This in no way resembles the King. They would simply have a KCC logo. No semblance of his personage would be worn. This kind of thing is not taken lightly here at all. Nowhere near the degree it is on the mainland, germany, tennessee, wherever they wanna do whatever they wanna do with the vanquished tribes and damn the losers cuz the winners wrote the history of the lands they conquered.

>This means I should be offended if I were to see a George Washington Stadium, and I am not.** An icon is, by logic, practice and by definition, public domain.

Just beCAUSE you wouldn't be offended to see a G. Washington stadium does not mean Hawaiians should be all warm n fuzzy if they see Kamehameha beer sold in a Madame Pele Pub.
Polynesians don't really care how americans handle their own icons. The concept of respect for one's elders and great personages in america is very different from the way it is handled in Polynesia. This is a different world. It is not right to assume the rest of the world MUST think as you do. You do NOT have a right to force the rest of the world to adhere to your standards.
Hawaii is sick of how americans use the legal system (which has nothing whatsoever to do with justice) for their own ends, claiming anything they wanna steal from other cultures, american liars, I mean lawyers, tells them, is public domain. "You lost, we won, so get used to the continual rape."
More and more, Hawaiians are feeling; hey. JUST leave us alone. stay away for our culture. Stop the continual rip off. we KNOW it's in your blood, your mindset. But refrain from it henceforth. puuulEEEEZE!

The Tiki bar and Polynesian restaurant is a very popular "theme" across america but many Polynesians and Hawaiians do not like their revered sacred gods used as cheap decor. In ancient times as well as now, many gods were only brought out in the open and utilised for sacred ritual, ceremony, prayer, offerings, etc.. Every god had a purpose. Every image has meaning. To pull the sacred down to the level of the profane is not right. But since in america it is considered o.k., this pernicious trend continues. Like a sick vile junkie, with no thought of anything else but THEIR own wants, they must do it on an habitual basis... just gotta profane that which should simply be left alone, allowed to its own culture.
Now just because we CAN and HAVE been using tiki iconography on cheap merchandise for a few decades here in america, doesn't mean we shouldn't learn that the origin culture that owns this imagery has something to say about it, but since it ain't a pretty picture, no one wants to lend an ear. Since, in effect, it is telling the amercians what to do, there is violent refusal. (what da hell were we thinkin'. NO one tells americans what to do. They do as they damn well please.)
sad. and very ethnocentric.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

Whoo, kimo, sometimes you just don't need the rest of us. Ask for people's takes on an issue, and if you don't stir up the feedback you want, write up your own rant.

I think you need to increase the dosage on your meds. You know the kind - golden liquid, usually comes in a green or brown glass bottle?

Don't ever change, either.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

wow.

I say it again.

Wow.

This is quite a powerful and thought-out post you have here. I want to come back to it.

aloha, P

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

that lil ol thang? I just threw it on. but it does the job.

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

Ask for people's takes on an issue, and if you don't stir up the feedback you want, write up your own rant.

I am an impatient lil essowbee, eh?
nah. I got a decent dose of what I wanted; 28 replies in one hour.