King Kamehameha's Club?!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

28 replies in one hour

Yeah, but by the time you bust your gut, take away your own comments and the off-topic ones, you left with 8.

Still, that's more than the number of "pick a song for the radio" requests I've gotten so far...

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

eight ain't bad.
but 28 sounds better on the resume.

[alohabear]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

they did. they do. Germans love the show. This was named after Rick's fictional club he managed in the show.

Maybe some German went to Eurodisney to the Enchanted Tiki Room and an idea slapped him in his olos.

[sinjin]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

I thought we were beating the Germans down this time.

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

I don't put Kamehameha Pai'ea in the same category as these cats. Nowhere in the good book does it say that Jesus could catch spears thrown at him. Or that he threw people off the Pali. Or into Iao stream.**
**No offense to Jesus.

But I don't think Kamehameha did a Jesus...that's resurrecting himself. And Jesus didn't have to catch spears...he just changed them into snakes

AND with the extremist Christians, they throw themselves off cliffs in the name of God. Now that's power!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

Far be it for me to jump up on my soapbox. They do as they damn well please.)
sad. and very ethnocentric.

oooookkkk, here we go:

Hindsight being twenny twenny, the first 3/4 of the 20th century did a pretty good job and forgetting Hawai'i's legacy. By turn of it, gone were the Gods. gone was the language (as a form of education; it moved into "street slang" afterwards), gone were the vast majority of the people due to diseases.

But we still had a couple of things:
-the land is still here
-the descendants are still here (whether ali'i, maka'ainana or kaua, we get in and out of the swamp meets using the same gates)
-the language, in its great body of written works, along with the pockets of manaleo kupuna, is still here

On the micro, we have some hybridizing issues that need sorting out. In dealing with these issues, knowledge is power.

Knowledge is power.

Knowledge is freeing.

Knowledge helps us understand our choices, and negotiate onward progressively.

And yet we are all different in how we face those progressive decisions. For you Kimo, the commercialization of ki'i into the tiki culture is offensive and bastardizing. For me, I reserve that ire for hunaism.

It could be argued that these are two sides of the same coin. At which point can/do/should we allow what was once sacred to be cheaply commercialized/new agedly (trendily) morphed?

Knowledge is power. Knowledge is freeing.

It is why my household is a bilingual one. As long as my children are equipped with the tools to read old texts and decipher for themselves the context of history, then I have no fear. As long as I can do the same for myself, then I have no fear.

As for that hotel, I would be more offended if it were like "the Ayatollah of Rock&Rolla" (Kameyameyaz for da playaz) or some shit like that.

But really, a bar on the other side of the planet or in Boise freaking Idaho is not going to get in the way of my ability to read Kekuhaupi'o in Hawaiian land learn for myself the greatness of my ancestors. Or to be able to compare/contrast these works with the English translations and see how well they fared...and failed.

Knowledge is sovereignty. Governments are cyclical. Copyrights enter into the public domain in 75 years. And all that stuff is a bunch of details anyway. And I will reserve my strength and my pennies to fight for progressive language policies that enable anyone and everyone to research and discern for themselves. What our past was. What our ancestors wanted for their descendants. What they faced. And how smart and progressive they really were.

Now to the macro of it all...

Global hegemony is the behemoth that no one has paid much attention to. The biggest complaint is that the US of A is the biggest Hegemonster, but I think the country just defaulted into it, along with Engaleesh. They are the trashcans of culture who have gunked to the top via rubbermaid and microwaves.

Let's stop and think for a second what that really means.

With language policies, the Japanese and French are notable for keeping offical lexicons to keep *gasp* bastardized terms from reaching their lovely tongues. In American English, we gotch yer faxes and dotcoms riiiggghhht here.

With cultural policies, countries that prize their women above all else have laws in place to severely protect them, leaving those women no room to breath, drive, or walk about town without a hijab. In America, every 18 year old teenager has the legal right to make mad cash starring in her first porn flick.

God Bless America.

Across the planet the youth are undergoing some velly intellesting tings with their cultural identities. Throughout the Pacific (NZ, PNG, Hawai'i), raggae is most popular. European kids are doing the gangsta thang (as are the upper middle class kids from the 'burbs). Japanese teens all wanna look like Yu-Gi-Oh!


But what does this all *mean*?!?! How does this relate to Hawai'i? What should we learn from it and what do we do?

Knowledge is power.

I just don't sweat pop culture. It is the very bastion of secularism that deserves its place on the planet, created by and for the masses. It is da underground. And if the tiki bar has cachet, that doesn't bug me either, because all religions are portrayed through art (reverently/irreverently).

Now, if I *didn't* know and *couldn't* know the gods of my ancestors...if the tiki was the only thing in which I could experience that cultural background in me, then I got me a serious problem.

And I would 1115% agree with you.

But I am free. Because I have access to the knowledge that keeps me heeled to the topic.

...Now, if you would like to see me go *off* on the topic, just mention kahunas who have the nerve to rub our old ki'i and make stonehedgie ahu out of Tutu Pele's rocks and do it for the self™ and make up gods and goddesses and use Hawaiian words to sound authentic, but their whole perspective is mana-sucking....

but I digress.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

I reserve that ire for hunaism.

Please forgive my ignorance - by "ire for hunaism," do you mean ire over the bastardization or commercialization of the religion prevalent throughout the Islands prior to Christianity?
(It's an area where my own knowledge is sorely lacking, I confess, and I should remedy that.)

[craigwatanabe]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

oooookkkk, here we go:

Hindsight being twenny twenny, the first 3/4 of the 20th century did a pretty good job and forgetting Hawai'i's legacy. By turn of it, gone were the Gods. gone was the language (as a form of education; it moved into "street slang" afterwards), gone were the vast majority of the people due to diseases.

But we still had a couple of things:
-the land is still here
-the descendants are still here (whether ali'i, maka'ainana or kaua, we get in and out of the swamp meets using the same gates)
-the language, in its great body of written works, along with the pockets of manaleo kupuna, is still here

On the micro, we have some hybridizing issues that need sorting out. In dealing with these issues, knowledge is power.

Knowledge is power.

Knowledge is freeing.

Knowledge helps us understand our choices, and negotiate onward progressively.

And yet we are all different in how we face those progressive decisions. For you Kimo, the commercialization of ki'i into the tiki culture is offensive and bastardizing. For me, I reserve that ire for hunaism.

It could be argued that these are two sides of the same coin. At which point can/do/should we allow what was once sacred to be cheaply commercialized/new agedly (trendily) morphed?

Knowledge is power. Knowledge is freeing.

It is why my household is a bilingual one. As long as my children are equipped with the tools to read old texts and decipher for themselves the context of history, then I have no fear. As long as I can do the same for myself, then I have no fear.

As for that hotel, I would be more offended if it were like "the Ayatollah of Rock&Rolla" (Kameyameyaz for da playaz) or some shit like that.

But really, a bar on the other side of the planet or in Boise freaking Idaho is not going to get in the way of my ability to read Kekuhaupi'o in Hawaiian land learn for myself the greatness of my ancestors. Or to be able to compare/contrast these works with the English translations and see how well they fared...and failed.

Knowledge is sovereignty. Governments are cyclical. Copyrights enter into the public domain in 75 years. And all that stuff is a bunch of details anyway. And I will reserve my strength and my pennies to fight for progressive language policies that enable anyone and everyone to research and discern for themselves. What our past was. What our ancestors wanted for their descendants. What they faced. And how smart and progressive they really were.

Now to the macro of it all...

Global hegemony is the behemoth that no one has paid much attention to. The biggest complaint is that the US of A is the biggest Hegemonster, but I think the country just defaulted into it, along with Engaleesh. They are the trashcans of culture who have gunked to the top via rubbermaid and microwaves.

Let's stop and think for a second what that really means.

With language policies, the Japanese and French are notable for keeping offical lexicons to keep *gasp* bastardized terms from reaching their lovely tongues. In American English, we gotch yer faxes and dotcoms riiiggghhht here.

With cultural policies, countries that prize their women above all else have laws in place to severely protect them, leaving those women no room to breath, drive, or walk about town without a hijab. In America, every 18 year old teenager has the legal right to make mad cash starring in her first porn flick.

God Bless America.

Across the planet the youth are undergoing some velly intellesting tings with their cultural identities. Throughout the Pacific (NZ, PNG, Hawai'i), raggae is most popular. European kids are doing the gangsta thang (as are the upper middle class kids from the 'burbs). Japanese teens all wanna look like Yu-Gi-Oh!


But what does this all *mean*?!?! How does this relate to Hawai'i? What should we learn from it and what do we do?

Knowledge is power.

I just don't sweat pop culture. It is the very bastion of secularism that deserves its place on the planet, created by and for the masses. It is da underground. And if the tiki bar has cachet, that doesn't bug me either, because all religions are portrayed through art (reverently/irreverently).

Now, if I *didn't* know and *couldn't* know the gods of my ancestors...if the tiki was the only thing in which I could experience that cultural background in me, then I got me a serious problem.

And I would 1115% agree with you.

But I am free. Because I have access to the knowledge that keeps me heeled to the topic.

...Now, if you would like to see me go *off* on the topic, just mention kahunas who have the nerve to rub our old ki'i and make stonehedgie ahu out of Tutu Pele's rocks and do it for the self™ and make up gods and goddesses and use Hawaiian words to sound authentic, but their whole perspective is mana-sucking....

but I digress.

Now wrap that up in a chant and you got a great theme there.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

Please forgive my ignorance - by "ire for hunaism," do you mean ire over the bastardization or commercialization of the religion prevalent throughout the Islands prior to Christianity?
(It's an area where my own knowledge is sorely lacking, I confess, and I should remedy that.)

Hawaiians didn't have a religion. There wasn't anything to choose. We had our physical, mental, spiritual, emotional sides. When we die, we go with our ancestors to Po. That which we call akua are our ancestors. And when we die, we become the akua for our descendants. Our connection is our genealogy. Our subconscience. Our morals and values. The oldest of these gods are our great gods. Ku, Kane, Kanaloa, Lono, Haumea, La'ila'i, Wakea, Haloiho. The youngest are our makua, our kupuna. We are reverent towards our parents, and more so to our grandparents, and so forth. Our aumakua are our families' guardians.

And it made it easier (I think) for our kupuna to deal with putting away the ancestors and laying down in front of the Cross, because it was the time of the Great God. But we don't turn our backs on our ancestors. Not even our greatest ones.

It is our journeys to be great ancestors ourselves. If we honor those in our past, so must we live the warrior's life and make strong children. Who will have strong children. So that our future is a strong one. Yes, a progressive and learned one. But strong nevertheless.

Huna™ is a "religion" incorporated in California in 1920. Max Freedom Long said that he was chosen by a Kahuna to carry on the knowledge because no one else was born to carry it. It is now available all over the internet, and in bookstores near you.

All I have to say is this: if a guy calls himself a kahuna, he ain't.

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

For you Kimo, the commercialization of ki'i into the tiki culture is offensive and bastardizing. For me, I reserve that ire for hunaism.

I don't have one pet peeve in this area.
That serge king huna junk is a target of mine often enuff too.
As well as the appropriation of many other things from polynesia stolen by the american fad/commercialization machine.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

So those Kanaka Maoli that I see not making great examples of parents to their keiki are desecrating their positions as being great ancestors to their decendants?

I think as parents we always want to be and share our legacy to our children from what our parents taught us. That is simply a proud family tradition to do.

But when I see people use their ancestrial background as an excuse instead of a way of life, I cannot regard that person as rich in culture.

When I do see an individual who lives and breathes their cultural ways in an enriching way, I give them high respect.

So back OT...if that King Kamehameha Club is respectful to the culture for which the great one envisioned (I highly doubt that will happen) I'm all for that club. But if they desecrate his name, that's not good.

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

Whoo, kimo, sometimes you just don't need the rest of us. Ask for people's takes on an issue, and if you don't stir up the feedback you want, write up your own rant.

now ya see? it's called 'priming the pump'

[kimo55]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

...Now, if you would like to see me go *off* on the topic, just mention kahunas who have the nerve to rub our old ki'i and make stonehedgie ahu out of Tutu Pele's rocks and do it for the self™ and make up gods and goddesses and use Hawaiian words to sound authentic, but their whole perspective is mana-sucking....

but I digress.

No, that's no digression. it's in line with what i rant and rail about alla time.
Give, sistah, give!
Knowledge is power, but the application of knowledge is more powerful.
Share your mana'o
what say you, regarding this?
and hunaism?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

So those Kanaka Maoli that I see not making great examples of parents to their keiki are desecrating their positions as being great ancestors to their decendants?

I think as parents we always want to be and share our legacy to our children from what our parents taught us. That is simply a proud family tradition to do.

But when I see people use their ancestrial background as an excuse instead of a way of life, I cannot regard that person as rich in culture.

When I do see an individual who lives and breathes their cultural ways in an enriching way, I give them high respect.

So back OT...if that King Kamehameha Club is respectful to the culture for which the great one envisioned (I highly doubt that will happen) I'm all for that club. But if they desecrate his name, that's not good.

You hit it right on the money. I am very strong-minded with my fellow Hawaiians. Don't talk to ME about being a Ha Y an and proud of it if you are are not living like an ancestor worthy to be proud of!

-Cut the drugs/tobacco/alcohol. It is the bane of our people over the last 200 years.

-Don't just react viscerally to stuff. Get educated. Learn about why our ancestors did what they did and THEN you will find that if you follow their best examples, you cannot go wrong.

-The future is our keiki. They are our greatest resource. Give them the tools that they need to face their future. We need for them to be strong. And the only way they will is by having our strong example to follow.

Its the sense of purpose. Every single one of us has strong ancestry! Let us continue that in our strong descendants, or we must look in the mirror and know who to blame if the link in the chain weakens.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: King Kamehameha's Club?!

That which we call akua are our ancestors. And when we die, we become the akua for our descendants. Our connection is our genealogy... But we don't turn our backs on our ancestors. Not even our greatest ones.

Hence the importance placed upon learning chants of genealogy? I've met kumu hula who can chant their family history for uncountable generations.
Mahalo for sharing this.