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  • damontucker
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    ... Therefore, in the spirit of teaching a man how to fish, I am not telling you the correct answers. They are easy enough to find.
    Nothing better than tough love... and I guess I will share my knowledge with what I have learned off the board too ...

    Gardangit Pua'i! HONI HONI!!! Wheres the Aloha... sheesh... you know my ohana...wtf... you expect me as an outsider to fricking ask these questions to them!!!...and then you tell me to use fricking google a non hawaiian entity to learn these things...

    Geez... if you want to PM me the answers you may... I promise I won't tell anyone!!!

    it's ironic that someone like you would make me go fish on a fricking haole search board to find my answers!!!!!!!!

    I've been doing it... and I'm still not sure of my answers....

    HONI HONI...

    Please PM me the 5 correct answers if you choose, I promise not to share it with everyone else!

    Mahalo,

    Damon

    Leave a comment:


  • Pua'i Mana'o
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
    Hey... you know I tried.. and your wording is to complex as you puzzle me...

    remember... who I've been around and what I've learned... is not spoken... it is learned.... I wasn't around from a young age and for me to only watch and learn at a later stage takes a lot of time.

    I'm not about to ask... as I still feel at the "keiki" look but no ask level when it comes to my Hawaiian things that I attend.

    And quite frankly at times I will embarass myself...which is why I appreciate the things that you talk about...

    So can you tell me what I did wrong with those questions and what the correct answers are?

    Sorry to kill you... but dang... who else can I can kill but myself at this point?
    you aren't killing me, Manoa. I regard your curiosity for Hawaiian issues a good thing. Therefore, in the spirit of teaching a man how to fish, I am not telling you the correct answers. They are easy enough to find.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leo Lakio
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
    I'm not about to ask... as I still feel at the "keiki" look but no ask level when it comes to my Hawaiian things that I attend.
    Thanks, manoa - I need to be reminded of that from time to time.

    Leave a comment:


  • damontucker
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    I am glad that you desire to learn more, because your answers for 1, 4 and 5 are incorrect. Pay attention to how each question is worded.

    FYI, your answer for #5 *kills* me.
    Hey... you know I tried.. and your wording is to complex as you puzzle me...

    remember... who I've been around and what I've learned... is not spoken... it is learned.... I wasn't around from a young age and for me to only watch and learn at a later stage takes a lot of time.

    I'm not about to ask... as I still feel at the "keiki" look but no ask level when it comes to my Hawaiian things that I attend.

    And quite frankly at times I will embarass myself...which is why I appreciate the things that you talk about...

    So can you tell me what I did wrong with those questions and what the correct answers are?

    Sorry to kill you... but dang... who else can I can kill but myself at this point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pua'i Mana'o
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
    From my research... I would guess ...

    May I remind you that I have never taken Hawaiian History, language etc... thus my lack of knowledge and desire to learn more.

    I am glad that you desire to learn more, because your answers for 1, 4 and 5 are incorrect. Pay attention to how each question is worded.

    FYI, your answer for #5 *kills* me.

    Leave a comment:


  • kiwidiva
    replied
    Wow This thread got a bit sidetracked but thank you all for your input...

    OK back to my point. I too wish that someone (at UH or else where) would come up with something original for the Warriors.

    The All Blacks haka and the haka in general in Aotearoa is not without controversy. There are two AB haka - Ka Mate (I die) and Kapa O Pango (Team in Black).

    The ABs have been doing the Ka Mate haka for one hundred years. This haka is controversial because the man who is credited with writing it, Te Rauparaha was a notorious chief... well, if he was YOUR ancestor, he was a hero but to the tribes he terrorized, he was a murderer! There's no doubt that he had a lot of mana because he ate a lot of people to get it!! The haka is from a much longer karakia (incantation) that he used to get himself out of some trouble when his enemies were chasing him. Feelings about Te Rauparaha are still strong and even now, in Aotearoa there are a lot of tribes (including mine) that would not appreciate you doing that haka in their marae (meeting house).

    The ABs did get permission from Ngati Toa, Te Rauparaha's tribe and his descendants to use the Ka Mate haka. The tribe has tried unsuccessfully to register the haka as a trademark - an intellectual property lawyer said at the time that trademarks could only be taken out to distinguish a product or service in the course of trade, which the haka was not. As a song, chant or challenge, it does come under the copyright act but copyright laws only apply for fifty years after the authors death. Te Rauparaha died in 1849.

    The ABs had Derek Lardelli, a well known Maori tattoo artist and cultural specialist consult with them and he wrote the new haka Kapa O Pango (the same haka the UH team is using - with a few slight variations).

    Kapa O Pango was written especially for the ABs to represent Aotearoa, the black jersey and the silver fern (our national symbol). It is meant to represent not just the Maori players in the team but anyone who puts on an All Black jersey. They did this haka for the first time in August 05 after secretly working on it for a year.

    Lardelli was quoted as saying, "It defines us as being All Blacks, it defines us being New Zealanders. We're the only people that can do haka."

    I guess he hasn't seen the UH Warriors version.

    Right away, the international press and some opposing teams wanted it banned because of the supposed "throat slitting gesture" at the end. The ABs only use Kapa O Pango for "special" games and fans are often pondering which haka will be performed right up until the players go on the field.

    In their last match, the ABs refused to do the haka after a run in with Welsh officials who wanted to dictate the order of events leading up to the game. Instead, they performed it in the dressing room before taking to the field.

    Rugby is not a Maori sport, neither is rugby league, swimming or golf but New Zealand athletes in those sports have also been known to do the haka before or after international competition. The haka in sports as a whole is controversial in New Zealand. Questions often arise as to who should be doing it and when. During the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne last year, Kiwi athletes were doing the haka A LOT. The media were asking when is it too much, should it only be done for gold medal performances or is silver, bronze or just a personal best OK?

    Many teams from New Zealand do the haka and I think it's great! It is a spiritual experience to see it being done properly by those who know what they are doing and my motto is, when you feel it... DO IT! EXCEPT when you're not from New Zealand and especially when you don't know what you're doing!!

    Leave a comment:


  • damontucker
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Was Ke Kumukanawai voided (legally speaking) when the Hawaiian Kingdom was overthrown (hence, nothing there to revise?)
    From my research... I would guess so..

    Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    Once you get all of these answers, come back and revisit the question above.
    1)how many constitutions are associated with Hawaii government?
    hint: kumukanawai of 1839 is the first. State of HI Constitution of 1978 is the last.
    My answer... is speculative... do you mean how many times has it been ammended?
    I did a few searches... and this is what I came up with...
    The Hawaii Constitution was framed by a Constitutional Convention under Act 334, Session Laws of Hawaii 1949. It was adopted by the people at the election held on November 7, 1950, and was deemed amended when three propositions submitted to the people in accordance with the Act of Congress approved March 18, 1959, 73 Stat 4, Public Law 86-3, were adopted by the people at the election held on June 27, 1959. As so amended, it was accepted, ratified, and confirmed by Congress by the Act of March 18, 1959. It went into effect on August 21, 1959, upon the issuance of a presidential proclamation admitting the state of Hawaii into the Union.

    The Constitution has since been amended a number of times in accordance with proposals adopted by the legislature or by constitutional convention and ratified by the people
    http://www.hawaii.gov/lrb/con/

    2)how many Constitutions are associated with the Kingdom of Hawaii? 5
    1840, 1852, 1864, 1887, & 1893

    3)Which Ali'i signed those Constitutions?

    a) 1840 Kamehameha III Kekauluohi b) 1852 KAMEHAMEHA Keoni Ana c) 1864 KAMEHAMEHA R. d) KALAKAUA REX Subscribed and sworn in by A.F. Judd, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and Chancellor of the Kingdom e) SAMUEL PARKER, A. P. PETERSON, WM. H. CORNWELL

    4)Who signed the last two Constitutions? Answered above D& E

    5)How many governments have ruled Hawaii since 1778? 3 (I'm thinking) Great Britain, England (France tried 1849) and the US

    May I remind you that I have never taken Hawaiian History, language etc... thus my lack of knowledge and desire to learn more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pua'i Mana'o
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
    not to be naive again Pua'i but was thinking about this...

    then did they re-write those earlier constitutions once UH became an entity that was federally funded?

    Federal money started rolling in soon after it became an institution and before Hawaii became a state!

    You know I'm not pushing buttons...just seeking further knowledge.

    I'm looking for any re-visions in those early constitutions and can't find them.

    We know why... but it does suck in a way...

    Pua'i I appreciate what I can learn from you on here! I wish that my own Ohana would freely share the information that you give at times.... Mahalo
    Manoa, I am now going to give you homework, all of the answers which are googleable:

    1)how many constitutions are associated with Hawaii government?
    hint: kumukanawai of 1839 is the first. State of HI Constitution of 1978 is the last

    2)how many Constitutions are associated with the Kingdom of Hawaii?

    3)Which Ali'i signed those Constitutions?

    4)Who signed the last two Constitutions?
    Hint: I am not only talking about the Hawaiian Kingdom

    5)How many governments have ruled Hawaii since 1778?

    Once you get all of these answers, come back and revisit the question above.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leo Lakio
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
    then did they re-write those earlier constitutions once UH became an entity that was federally funded?

    I'm looking for any re-visions in those early constitutions and can't find them.
    Was Ke Kumukanawai voided (legally speaking) when the Hawaiian Kingdom was overthrown (hence, nothing there to revise?)

    Leave a comment:


  • kumukulanui
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    I've only ever seen the All Blacks or other NZ national teams performing a haka, but I would think it must look bizarre to see another group doing it, no matter if they learned the moves correctly. I used to watch international rugby tournaments when I lived in Fiji and most of the nations that came had their own cibi, haka, sipi tau and so on. They are so obviously deeply connected with the culture of the people performing it that it just doesn't make sense for someone else to do it. If they want to tap into the power of their culture then I echo those who suggest UH put together something that is inspired by their culture, rather than adopting someone else's.

    I'm not a purist about this - after all, some of the All Blacks performing the haka are from other pacific islands or are ethnic Europeans. So I can imagine circumstances in which you might want to honour another culture by performing one of their dances. But I don't get the impression from what people are saying here that that is what they are trying to do.

    Peter

    Leave a comment:


  • damontucker
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    not to be naive again Pua'i but was thinking about this...

    then did they re-write those earlier constitutions once UH became an entity that was federally funded?

    Federal money started rolling in soon after it became an institution and before Hawaii became a state!

    You know I'm not pushing buttons...just seeking further knowledge.

    I'm looking for any re-visions in those early constitutions and can't find them.

    We know why... but it does suck in a way...

    Pua'i I appreciate what I can learn from you on here! I wish that my own Ohana would freely share the information that you give at times.... Mahalo

    Leave a comment:


  • damontucker
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Thank you for clarifying!

    Leave a comment:


  • Pua'i Mana'o
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    the differentiation between K-12 and Higher Ed didn't exist back then. Education was open for all ages, because Hawaiians of all ages were flocking to it. As time went on and different schools were built it became striated by the end of the 19th century.

    Leave a comment:


  • damontucker
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Pua'i those constitutions cover Public Education.

    UH is considered Higher Education. Did those original Constitutions just mandate public education... which would constitute what we now deem K-12...

    Or did those constitutions mean Higher Education? Why would they write constitutions in 1839 & 1840 addressing Higher Education...when there were no Higher Education Institutes at the time?
    As the public system of higher education in Hawai‘i, UH offers opportunities as unique and diverse as our Island home.
    http://www.hawaii.edu/about/
    In 1907, the Hawai‘i Territorial Legislature established the College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in Honolulu under terms of the U.S. land grant legislation. Ten students begin classes with 13 faculty members in September of the following year, and the first graduates received degrees - two in the sciences and one each in agriculture and engineering - in 1912.

    The University has been growing ever since
    http://www.hawaii.edu/about/history.html

    Pua'i I'm not trying to be naive... just trying to learn something!

    Leave a comment:


  • Pua'i Mana'o
    replied
    Re: UH Haka

    Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
    I was just questioning Pua'i assertion that football doesn't have anything to do with Hawaiian Concepts...
    So I was asking anyone out there that might have knowledge...

    What do Universities and Colleges have to do with Hawaiian Customs?

    If we are taking Football to the Hawaiian Connection... why not tie in the whole University and College to the question?

    Are universities and colleges Hawaiian?
    wtf Manoa?? What is frustrating is that you would ask me a dumb question like that when it has nothing to do with the tea in China.

    *sigh*

    1839 Constitution (Ke Kumukanawai) King Kamehameha III mandates public education for all (in US history, the only state with an older dept of education is Mass).

    1840 Lahainaluna is built (in US history, it is considered the first school west of the Rockies) also, Lahainaluna has its Hale Pa'i (printing house)

    cerebral subjects that were printed through Hawaiian during that era include:
    -astronomy
    -algebra and trigonometry
    -anatomy and physiology

    to name a few.

    What is interesting is that you didn't (and probably wouldn't think to) ask that question of England, Egypt, the US, China, and other more esteemed societies...but let's not quibble. Hawaiians didn't appropriate the Haka for our fb function. The UH FB team chose this.

    Get back to the topic at hand, okay? Or spend the moments yourself and search what I have said about this very subject on this very board many, many times.

    Leave a comment:

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