Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Lt. Watada and his parents were present last night at University Lutheran Church in Seattle, when a retired officer, Col. Ann Wright, addressed a crowd.

"...Speaking at University Lutheran Church in Seattle, retired Col. Ann Wright said Monday night that the artillery-targeting officer has the right to disobey "illegal orders."

Under principles established during the Nuremberg trials after World War II, she noted, people have an obligation to oppose a government that is conducting a war of aggression.

"The country of Iraq did nothing to the United States of America," said Wright, who resigned from the U.S. Foreign Service in 2003 because of the war.

At the church, Watada sat next to his parents, who flew in from Hawaii to support him. When the day comes for his unit to go to Iraq, he said he will report for duty. But he said he will not board the airplane....

"...While he does not expect to be arrested that day, he said he knows charges will be issued. He said he has told his commanders he will not make the day a media event....

"...On June 27, war resistance groups will hold protests as a "National Day of Action" to back him.

Robert Watada, a Vietnam War opponent, said his son decided on his own to request leaving the Army and to protest being sent to Iraq.

"We are very proud of him," said Robert Watada. "Contrary to what people think, that he is a traitor, he took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. That's what he's doing."

But there are costs. While some in the military support him, Ehren Watada said he has received hate messages via e-mail and indirect hostility from fellow Fort Lewis soldiers.

"It's not easy to stand up," said Wright. "Having been in the military for 29 years, I know the pressures that Lt. Watada is under. It is a difficult thing to go against the organization."...

"...But when the day comes when Ehren Watada must say goodbye to his fellow soldiers, he knows what he will say.

"I will say, 'Good luck to all of you and come back home safe.' "...

Miulang

[legal_secretary_in_mtl]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

You sure got that right !! Im a canadian and all u said is true

I don't think he can just apply for citizenship:

1. He will have to have lived there for 3 years and that's after he is considered a "resident" also... I don't think he can be considered a resident... rather an AWOL US soldier looking for an easy way out.
2. And also, just as applying to become a US Citizen... he will have to Learn a lot about Canada their laws, history, etc. and pass a citizenship test.
3. and the main thing... is the fact that he is now considered a Criminal!

You cannot become a Canadian citizen if:

you are in prison, on parole or on probation;
in the past four years, you were in prison, on parole or on probation for a year or more;
you were convicted of an indictable offence or crime, or an offence under the Citizenship Act in the three years preceding your application;
you are currently charged with an indictable offence or crime, or an offence under the Citizenship Act;
you are under a removal order and are not currently allowed to be in Canada;
you are under investigation for a war crime or a crime against humanity; or
your Canadian citizenship has been taken away (revoked) in the past five years.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/howto-e.html

[War_Resisters_Canada]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

This is from the United States Constitution, clearly explaining that all treaties are the supreme law of the land.

Article VI
All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

This is from the United Nations Charter a treaty entered into by the United States. Further more in signing this United Nations Charter they United States did in fact submit itself to the rulings of the Security Council.

Article 25
The Members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter.

Further more in signing this United Nations Charter the United States agreed to not act upon a domestic assessment but rather use that assessment as evidence for the Security Council.

Article 39
The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security.Then read the following also from the United Nations Charter:

This does not however prevent the United States from defending itself against a foreign invasion force on US Soil. Because the United Nations will not refuse the right to defend a nation's sovreignty.

[War_Resisters_Canada]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

You sure got that right !! Im a canadian and all u said is true

For a Legal Secretary or Qubeec Notary to say this is hillarious. So you are telling me that even through CIC processing center in Mississauga has accepted my sponsorship and even though I am on the system as being processed for permenant residency It is impossible.

Let me correct you...

1. AFTER becoming a Permenant Resident in Canada through Family Based immigration you must wait a minimum of 3 years to apply for citizenship. It is not wait 3 years to apply for Permenant Residency.

2. My FBI, HPSD, RCMP, and NBI clearances all came back clean. Even if there is a warrant for my arrest in the United States for Desertion, I could not be extradited, due the fact that I have status here in Canada and that the Extradiction agreement between the United States and Canada excludes crimes of a political and military nature. i.e. Desertion and Missing a Movement.

3. In Canada, I am not a criminal although there is an arrest warrant in NCIC system Canada Law Enforcement Officers do not have the authority to arrest me or extradict me under the charges of Desertion because of the above said Bilateral Treaty. I am in no way hiding in Canada. I reguraly socialize with people of all walks of life even police officers and canadian forces members. I have to say I have only met 4 people since comming to Canada who said I should be sent back. One was a Marine based at the Ottawa Consulate, the other an American on vacation, another was a Conservative Member of Parliment, and the last was a Drunk guy whom I don't know why he was talking to me.

Suprisingly though you are from Montreal and I can imagine not part of the Bloc Québécois. You do know that we have recieved a very good sign of approval from Bloc over the amnesty issue. So between the Bloc and the NDP we are catching up now we have the Liberal party but they are still in disarsay so it we are in a good position to lobby the leader canidates to get their followers behind. Harper doesn't stand a chance.

However Our goal in Canada is not to open up refugee status for deserters but to have a resolution passed for military personel of all nations whom are ordered into a illegal war or illegal military operation. Despite whether or not their was a draft. Prime Minister Trudeau did it and now the Liberal's are finding that they need another Trudeau to stir the public and to gain the House of Commons Majority again....

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

"Suprisingly though you are from Montreal and I can imagine not part of the Bloc Québécois. You do know that we have recieved a very good sign of approval from Bloc over the amnesty issue. So between the Bloc and the NDP we are catching up now we have the Liberal party but they are still in disarsay so it we are in a good position to lobby the leader canidates to get their followers behind. Harper doesn't stand a chance.

However Our goal in Canada is not to open up refugee status for deserters but to have a resolution passed for military personel of all nations whom are ordered into a illegal war or illegal military operation. Despite whether or not their was a draft. Prime Minister Trudeau did it and now the Liberal's are finding that they need another Trudeau to stir the public and to gain the House of Commons Majority again...."

Hi Chris;

I want to make sure I understand this correctly. You are not a resident, more like an outsider. You don't have the right to vote but you are tactfully aligning yourself with the liberal party. Which in turn will help pass legislation that allows more non resident non voters to enter the country. This of course is being orchestrated from the nosebleed seats.

OK, we all wish it was the 60s again but people like Trudeau (rest his soul) don't come around too often. There has got to be something else. Right?

BTW, I am thinking you just lost a vote in Montreal.

[War_Resisters_Canada]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I am not a member of the Liberal Party, I am a proud supporter of the NDP. The resolution which is currently being proposed will allow US Citizens whom wish to seek refuge on the basis that the war is illegal will be allowed to do so. They will be allowed to become permenant residents through a process of applying and proving they can become a productive member of canadian society. This is not being orchestrated by junior members of Parliment but rather the leader of the NDP Jack Layton aswell as all NDP MPs, we have also many high ranking Liberals whom are supporting this action. Also as I said in my earlier statement the Bloc Québécois, is comming around on the resolution, Meili Faille the immigration critic (for americans that means she sits on the citizen and immigration commitee in Parliament), has been accepting of the idea.

As for losing her vote I am not trying to be arogant to her it was just her response was unprofessional. I hope that she forgives me and understands...

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Chris;

Thank You for clearing that up. I had no idea that your group has imbedded yourselves so deeply in Canadian politics.

BTW, when is the election?

[War_Resisters_Canada]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Elections in Canada are not like that of the US they do not have to be exactly on a set day. The Prime Minister can request a election at anytime however there must be at least one election every 5 years. Now the opposition parties may motion for no cofidence, which means they can vote to disolve the current house of commons and call for a new federal election. In the case of US Deserters we have created a coalition of Parties. Because currently the NDP is on the 3rd Largest Party in Canada, so we have combined them with the power of the Bloc, and members of the Liberal party to ensure that any attempt by the conservative government to refuse the passage of the resolution will not take place.

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Hi Chris;

Again, thank you for your reply. In between posts, I did some searching and I gotta question for you. Trudeau was a liberal and his stance in these matters is well documented. Why are you not aligned with the Liberal Party? Why did you choose to align with the "moderate to left wing" position?

I clearly see the "#2 and #3 and #4 take out #1" strategy. Did I answer my own question?

[War_Resisters_Canada]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Nachodaddy,
Mr. Trudeau was unique amongst the liberal party. This was the man who wanted to get rid of the queen so bad that when he met her in May 7, 1977, did a pirouette behind the back of Queen Elizabeth II. After being outsed from office for a short period he went back and did the same thing in front of her face. He called out Members of Parliament with swear words and pissed prominante members of government off by comming into work dressed up in rubber slippers and a fur cap.

While serving Justice Minister, he crushed anti-homosexuality laws and said, "The view we take here is that there's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation."

Pierre Trudeau was a politician not only for the but of the people. Mr Trudeau, had a great belief in Marxist views and the NDP, however you do not get voted into office in Qubeec as an NDP. In Qubeec you are either in the Bloc or a Liberal. The NDP is not a moderate liberal party despite what you read. NDP is the Progressive Social Democratic Party. We believe in many Marxist applications in a Democratic society. We are also believe in unquestioned civil rights and social equality. We have a strong stance that Healthcare and Education shall be held up as a priority for Canada and even the world, and that rather putting so much money into detering crime we should attempting to rehabilitate.

The NDP is the grassroots Left Wing Movement. The Liberals are a little further to the left than the Democrats of the US. The Conservatives are the Republicans except alittle farther right.

[glossyp]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Mr. Trudeau was unique amongst the liberal party. This was the man who wanted to get rid of the queen so bad that when he met her in May 7, 1977, did a pirouette behind the back of Queen Elizabeth II.

He was so determined to get rid of her he performed a pirouette? Now that's a stunning display of resolve. Those crazy French-Canadians!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

He was so determined to get rid of her he performed a pirouette? Now that's a stunning display of resolve. Those crazy French-Canadians!

It caused quite a stir at that time (SO disrespectful! Off with his head!) Trudeau was a master politician and communicator, in the sense that he knew how to strike a balance between quiet subtlety and blunt directness.

So this has become a thread about Canadian politics, eh? I could add in a lot of stuff on that topic --- but I think we need to get the train back on track.

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

So this has become a thread about Canadian politics, eh? I could add in a lot of stuff on that topic --- but I think we need to get the train back on track.

Yeah, I second dat. Wassa matta with you guys?

Let's talk story.

Topic: "Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant"

I forgot wat I wanted to say.

Oh! Freedom of Speech is Excellent!

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Here's a followup on the case of Suzanne Swift, the AWOL Army Spec. who is now confined to base at Ft. Lewis. She went AWOL because she said members of her unit, including some officers, sexually harrassed and molested her. People speaking on her behalf say this is not uncommon among women in the military.

"...A Veterans Administration Study found that 63 percent of woman serving in Iraq were reporting sexual trauma caused from inside the military, according to Larry Hildes, a lawyer representing Army Spc. Suzanne Swift....

"...She said three sergeants began propositioning her for sex shortly after she arrived in Iraq in February 2004.

"Her squad leader … coerced her into a sexual relationship with the fear that if she didn't go along with this, she would end up dead. And for three months, he raped her and forced her in his bed," Hildes said.

In an interview with the Register-Guard newspaper, Swift said in a combat situation, "your squad leader is deciding whether you live or die." ...

Miulang

[glossyp]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

It caused quite a stir at that time (SO disrespectful! Off with his head!) Trudeau was a master politician and communicator, in the sense that he knew how to strike a balance between quiet subtlety and blunt directness.

So this has become a thread about Canadian politics, eh? I could add in a lot of stuff on that topic --- but I think we need to get the train back on track.

Sorry - I just couldn't resist! OTOH, this thread has been hijacked by WRC to spout all sorts of stuff to buttress his anti-war arguments and justify his behavior. With the arrival of WRC on the scene, the scope has expanded far beyond the original topic of Lt. Watada. Perhaps we need two threads? This one and one devoted to war resisters, awol types and the like.

edited to correct name