Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

of formal indictment for OBL as I don't consider that a necessity to personally believe he was involved. I would think you would be pleased that the FBI is exercising such diligence to build an iron clad case.

After seeing the CNN Special about the Meltdown of US Intelligence and how the FBI and CIA were told to provide ALL (substantiated and not) information they had gathered to the White House and then having the White House set policy based on some things which were not proven by facts, I am less concerned about the diligence of the FBI and CIA than I am about the White House's inability to sort truth from fiction.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

K-den...back to War Resisters. Please?

Mahalo,

Auntie Lynn

Heros!!!!!

[tutusue]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Originally Posted by Leo Lakio
Lynn, you know I honor you and respect you (and your children), but here's one point where we'll have to disagree.[...]

Leo, I respect and honor you too.

Like I said, "Freedom of Speech is Excellent!"[...]

You both have opposing views for all of the right reasons! So...I respect and honor both of you!

I'm sure Lance Cpl. Magaoay did not arrive at his decision without a lot of soul searching. It makes no difference whether I agree or disagree with his decision. I'm impressed with how he's articulating his situation and also impressed that he's taken some heat here in HT with grace and dignity. I'm sorry to see some HTers resort to name calling but I also understand it's in the name of Patriotism.

And, yes, Lynn...your 3 soldiers are indeed heros as are all of those who are fighting this ridiculous war.

Oh, and I can't stand beer!

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

OK, Tita:
Back to the topic. Here's a story about another soldier who went AWOL, tried to turn himself in, was diagnosed as suffering from PTSD and was ordered by his commanders to redeploy to Iraq. He's still trying to turn himself in, but the Army won't allow him be tried and jailed here in the US.

"...Instead, Army Pvt. Ryan Patrick Meeks, 22, has remained absent without leave since April 28.

"I tried to turn myself in," he said. "I went the right route, I thought. I showed the Army I was diagnosed with PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), but they didn't even look at it. They just wanted to send me back to Iraq." ...

"...Meeks said he went with his father, Randy Meeks of Vancouver, to Fort Lewis on Memorial Day weekend and reported to military police. They gave him a bus ticket to his unit's home base, Fort Campbell, Ky. He got on the bus to Fort Campbell where officials said he'd have to return to Iraq to face a court martial.

He said he wasn't going back to Iraq. Instead, he got back on the bus and came home to Vancouver, he said. He returned home June 5, said his mother, Marcie Meeks of Vancouver.

The Army refused to keep him in the United States and help him deal with his anxiety, emotional instability, depression, anger and hypervigilance, Ryan Meeks said. ...

"...Meeks said he is willing to go to jail for being AWOL, but in the United States not if he has to go back to Camp Speicher at Tikrit, Iraq, where he served for eight months. He was a Humvee driver in the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault).

"I don't know if you've been to Iraq, but it's not a nice place," he said. "And the jails aren't, either. ? I was defending my country, you know, and they are going to send me to prison in Iraq?

"It's a sticky situation. I been through the mortars and the roadside bombs, and now they want to send me back to spend my last months in the Army in a jail over there?" he said. "That isn't right."

Meeks, who is due for discharge from the Army in 2007, said he served 45 days in prison in Iraq after being found guilty of smoking marijuana along with two dozen other soldiers while they were still at Fort Campbell. He said that also was unfair because he felt he should have been tried in the United States. ..."

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Meeks, who is due for discharge from the Army in 2007, said he served 45 days in prison in Iraq after being found guilty of smoking marijuana along with two dozen other soldiers while they were still at Fort Campbell. He said that also was unfair because he felt he should have been tried in the United States. ..."

Miulang

Tita Miulang, I read all the way to the bottom.

PTSD ~ I no think so!!!

Lynn

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I came across the following information from the Canadian Quakers (known for being antiwar) about Americans going AWOL in Canada and the US. Perhaps it will help readers understand the differences between how a military person who refuses to go to Iraq is handled in Canada. It won't be the same "slam dunk" to remain in Canada for Lance Cpl. Magaoay and the other defectors as it was for people fleeing during the Vietnam era.

Miulang

[tutusue]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Tita Miulang, I read all the way to the bottom.

PTSD ~ I no think so!!!

Lynn

Auntie...I'm very familiar with PTSD and am wondering why you no think so!

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Auntie...I'm very familiar with PTSD and am wondering why you no think so!

Perhaps he went to a stronger level from Pot to LSD?

Misdiagnosed: LSD not PTSD

Auntie Lynn

[damontucker]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I imagine that the Province of Quebec in Canada would be a hot spot for AWOL soldiers. The language that is spoken most commonly there is FRENCH!

Remember the whole thing about French Fries being called Freedom Fries because France was not supportive of the US?

Gee... Should I start asking for Freedom Bacon instead of Canadian Bacon on my Pizza's from now on?

Manoa... trying to have fun with this thread...

And can't we all just get along???

We voice our opinions... however, I will give the Lt. this... He is a very admirable (NOT HONORABLE) soldier by going public with his story here with us all on HT.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Sadly, Tita, it's been estimated that somewhere around 20% of returning Iraqi vets (that's one out of every 5 returning members of the military) is suffering some kind of emotional distress from being in the war zone...symptoms include drug and alcohol abuse, depression, anxiety, fear of crowds, nightmares (flashbacks), aggressive behavior.

My ex- was in Vietnam fixing Cobra gunships. He used to write to me about how, as he was on guard duty, and with incoming rockets whizzing around his head, he and his buddies used to get high on marijuana or get so rip roaring drunk to help deaden the pain of having killed people. When he left the service, he became an alcoholic. I have no idea where he is today or if he's even alive. But I know that's what the troops do when they don't believe in what they're being commanded to do...either go AWOL, get thrown into the brig for insubordination, get high to deaden the pain, or shoot yourself in the foot so you get a one-way ticket home.

I have another friend in DC who was also in Vietnam in the Marines. He's also an alcoholic. His dad was once a Congressional representative from Ohio. Last year his doctors told him he would probably be dead soon from cirrhosis of the liver. I have another friend who was in the Special Forces. He was in the invasion of Panama. When he got out of the service (after he had some of his fingers blown off and his face horribly disfigured), he tried finding a job, but because of his disability he was unable to. He needed money, so he became a mercenary. He went on "rescue missions" in Congo and elsewhere to retrieve American business people. When I last heard from him, he was living in exile in Victoria, BC, working for the biggest Chinese tong leader in Canada as his bodyguard. Otto was also an alcoholic and he said he did that to erase the memory of all the people he killed.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Tita Miulang, I understand fully what is PTSD. Remember, I have a son who was injured not once but twice in Iraq. As an Assistant Administrator for a Nationwide Military Moms Support Group, I know many stories of the men and women who have been diagnosed with it from serving in the Middle East.

Two months ago, my nephew-inlaw was injured as he landed into enemy territory for a mission. He has no use for one of his legs anymore. Still, he would return in a blink of an eye if given the chance.

I also know first hand of other Military Mom's nightmares and losses. Still many who have come back return courageously to once again face the demons in which made them that way.

Many go undiagnosed. It is a sad fact.

Yes, too many stories of the ones who go and fight for us and put thier lives so that we at home can live in Freedom. In the past, at present and in the future. War is War.

The ugliness of War will never cease.

Stories of those who survive will be told over and over again. We must listen. They must be heard. However, I will not listen to the gripes of ones that knowingly did something wrong and then blame it on something else.

Too many men and women have lost their lives to be tainted by lies. Too many men and women continue to sacrafice and give their lives for us.

Lynn

[tutusue]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Perhaps he went to a stronger level from Pot to LSD?

Misdiagnosed: LSD not PTSD

Auntie Lynn

Could be. But, perhaps pot helped numb the symptoms of PTSD. We'll never know, tho'.

[scrivener]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

For a few days last week, this was a fascinating thread. There was reasoned, intelligent discourse about an issue that -- at least for most of us -- just isn't cut-and-dried. Based on some of the appreciative posts, I'd say I'm not the only one who thought that the discussion was giving us something to think about. I don't think anything anyone has said changed anyone's mind, but when something as important as what's at stake here can be discussed candidly and openly, with participants actually listening to what others have to say, it does great things for our souls and our communities. Agreeing to disagree is a sweet thing.

How quickly things deteriorate into name-calling and nyah-nyahs. It's like we've suddenly put our hands over our ears and hummed loudly while the others have spoken, only to wait our turns so we can repeat what we've already said.

It makes me wonder if Mel wasn't right, all those months ago, when he decided to stick to the "what's for lunch?" threads, many of which I have initiated and enjoyed. Mel's problem was the reputation system, not the way these things tend to go 'round in circles after everything seems to have been said, but I think we're coming from the same place: What good does it do anyone to post thoughts on something if nobody's really listening?

It also makes me think about the way admin shuts down certain threads when they've strayed too far from amiable discourse and into sniping and bickering. Maybe what the moderators need to do is step in and say, "Okay, last round! Everyone gets one more post and then we're out of time! See you all at the blue fart thread!"

But that's no real solution either. I don't even know why I'm posting this, except to express that I'm feeling kinda bummed out about the avenue this conversation seems to be going down. However, I make it a professional policy not to complain about something unless I have a suggestion for making it better, and while HT is not my job, maybe it's just a good policy for any situation involving groups of people, so I guess my suggestion is just this: Let's all assume good faith (to borrow my favorite of Wikipedia's editors' guidelines), and in good faith ourselves, try our darndest to listen to what others have to say.

[damontucker]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Very well put scriv...

I've thought this about HT in general for the last few weeks...

I hope things clear up soon!

Manoa...

P.S. thanks for putting it in a well thought out non - offensive way

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I post not to change anyone's mind. I post to express my thoughts and what I feel as a Military Mom. If I have been repeating over and over without anyone reading - so be it. That was not intention to begin with.

My personal feeling for members of the Forum is widely known. I have expressed on the Board my Respect and Honor for Tita Muilang and Leo. To voice our opionions within the rules and regulations of the Forum is what I abide by.

Yes, I'm guilty of name calling. I did it because that is how I feel. If it is not to the liking of others, I apologize but it doesn't change the fact in what I believe.

I do not want to be told to become silent over an issue I feel passionate about. To do so would be an injustice.

Respecting everyone's view is priority. Sometimes in the heat of the things - it can be overlooked. I agree with you that we should be more aware of what everyone has to say and listen.

Freedom of Speech is Excellent!!!

Lynn