Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

[TuNnL]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Just for the record, there were protests right here on O‘ahu. Didn’t want that point, however trivial, to be overlooked.

Lieutenant Garners National Support

A Hawaii man was the focus of rallies in 33 cities across the nation today. All were in support of Lt. Ehren Watada, the soldier who refused to deploy to Iraq with his Washington-based unit.

About 25 to 30 supporters rallied outside Fort Shafter at four this afternoon. They believe the war is wrong and that Watada has the right to refuse to fight, although he joined the Army voluntarily.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

The US Army announced this morning that it intends to file unspecified charges against Lt. Watada sometime today.

Miulang

[timkona]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Ever notice that Muslim bombers never target liberal, antiwar rallies.

[MadAzza]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Ever notice that Muslim bombers never target liberal, antiwar rallies.

That's a pretty small target to hit with a 737.

It'd be kind of ironic if they did, though, wouldn't it?

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Ever notice that Muslim bombers never target liberal, antiwar rallies.

In Vegas, that would be called a "push"

Speaking of Vegas, the over/under for Watada has been set at 5 years. Even money that he fires his lawyer before this is over.

C'mon he needs another rally. The one on the 27th in Tacoma was seriously lacking enthusiam.

[damontucker]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Heres is the official charge sheet for the Watada case

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/new...arge_sheet.pdf

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Heres is the official charge sheet for the Watada case

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/new...arge_sheet.pdf

Good job Manoa, have not seen a DD 458 in while.

The count- one 87, two 88s, three 133s.

Better call Vegas as the over/under is going to shift upwards. This is hardcore.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

A reporter from the Star Bulletin and an independent journalist are expected to be called to testify in the case against Lt. Watada. This should really be interesting, as the Army expects both reporters to bolster their case that the Lt. made comments criticizing the President.

According to Lt. Watada's civilian attorney, ..."The charge sheet quotes Watada as saying in one interview: "As I read about the level of deception the Bush administration used to initiate and process this war, I was shocked. I became ashamed of wearing the uniform."

Seitz argues that such comments are within Watada's First Amendment rights to make, because he is stating a political position without inciting other people to acts of protest.

"The comments have been basically directed toward the way in which we went to war," said Seitz. "He's not out to call the president names or be disrespectful to his superiors."

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Interesting potential fallout by today's announcement by the Pentagon that it will observe the Geneva Conventions Common Article 3 regarding the humane treatment of detainees.

Some military analysts actually believe it will help our troops on the front because it will remove any ambiguity about treatment of hostile forces. In complying with international law, one of Lt. Watada's original charges would therefore be discharged (although I don't know if this can be applied retroactively in his case).

"...The biggest effect of the Pentagon's acceptance of a recent Supreme Court ruling that requires it to abide by the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of prisoners is likely to be not at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp or in U.S. courtrooms but on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, military lawyers and other experts said yesterday.

Experts said the justices' ruling removes much of the ambiguity about what sort of protections detained Iraqis, Afghans and foreign fighters enjoy and what rules apply to the actions of U.S. troops....

"...For years, these experts said, U.S. military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan were operating under guidelines that were not clear. As prisoners were taken in Afghanistan late in 2001 and early in 2002, for example, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said that the United States "for the most part" was treating the prisoners "in a manner that is reasonably consistent with the Geneva Convention." But he said that it was not required to do so, because the detainees are "unlawful combatants" who "do not have any rights under the Geneva Convention."

This murkiness has been cited by some critics of the administration's operations in Iraq as contributing to a culture of abuse that led to inhumane treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison and other sites...."

Miulang

[Miulang]

New Interview

This is a new 30-minute interview conducted by Seattle news station KING 5 with Lt. Watada explaining why he chose to defy orders to deploy. At the very end of it, he has a special message for the people of Hawai'i.

His absolute bottom line is, you don't have to agree with what he's doing. All he's asking is you do your own reading and processing of information. And whatever decision you end up making, that it's one you can live with. He says no matter which side of the argument you're on with regard to the occupation of Iraq, just get informed and do something.

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Re: New Interview

His absolute bottom line is, you don't have to agree with what he's doing. All he's asking is you do your own reading and processing of information. And whatever decision you end up making, that it's one you can live with. He says no matter which side of the argument you're on with regard to the occupation of Iraq, just get informed and do something.

That's typical arrogance, assuming his audience (and I do mean audience) isn't informed. "I've done all the reading. YOU haven't. Go read what I read and then you'll agree with me." Read between the lines, folks -- that's exactly what he's saying.

Not that I don't agree with some things he's said about this situation, but that arrogance is really a turnoff.

Hey, guess what, Lieutenant? We HAVE done the reading. We don't need you to tell us what to read and what not to read. Thanks anyway.

[TuNnL]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

This is an NBC affiliate station, so I wonder if this is the same interview that KHNL-News8 has been running promos for. Their interview is supposed to air tonight on their 6pm and 10pm newscast.

Face to Face with Lt. Ehren Watada

I think News8 said they sent a reporter to the mainland. But we never see the reporter’s face in Miulang’s link.

By the way, I disagree with MadAzza. I think there’s more people who are less informed on the Iraq War. In fact, people have become less informed about politics in general in the past 40 years.

[MadAzza]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

By the way, I disagree with MadAzza. I think there’s more people who are less informed on the Iraq War. In fact, people have become less informed about politics in general in the past 40 years.

Cite, please. I don't see how people could possibly be less informed now than people were 40 years ago.

People generally say that when they find themselves in the minority. I'm not saying that's the case with you, though. But for some, it's easier to say, "Well, if everyone else would just READ more, they'd see things my way! Until then, they're uninformed."

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

One of the reasons I think more people aren't engaged (on either side of the debate) about our occupation in Iraq is because outside of those who have family or friends over there in harm's way, for most of us, life just goes on. We're too involved in our own day-to-day struggle to survive to care what happens outside of our own little neighborhood.

I don't think what Lt. Watada said in this interview was meant to be construed as putting down those who have done "their" homework and can in all good conscience say that they understand the reasons why and the implications of our being in the Middle East. But when 48% of our own fighting forces stationed over there say they don't have a clear understanding of what their mission is---and mind you, these are people who are laying their lives on the line---it's no small wonder that people in this country are as uninvolved and in the dark as they are. On the one hand, you have an Administration (as is typical of most Administrations) that uses subterfuge and lies to do its dirty deeds and then you have a national media that was, until very recently, so beholden to the Administration for whatever reason that they only chose to parrot back what the White House wanted...and to think "A Nation of Sheep" was written how many years ago? There should be a sequel "A Nation of Sheep Redux" published. Funny how things change and yet sadly remain the same.

Miulang

P.S. TunNL: I believe this is the same interview, and that the interviewer may in fact have been a woman reporter from Hawai'i (she sounded like she had a "local" accent...if you know what I mean )

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

One of the reasons I think more people aren't engaged (on either side of the debate) about our occupation in Iraq is because outside of those who have family or friends over there in harm's way, for most of us, life just goes on. We're too involved in our own day-to-day struggle to survive to care what happens outside of our own little neighborhood.

You speaking for other people again??? I thought you said you were going to stop doing that.