Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

You speaking for other people again??? I thought you said you were going to stop doing that.

It's my opinion and I'm just speculating, not talking for others. You can speculate too. It's a free country, after all. Notice above, I wrote, "I THINK" not "I KNOW"? That's the difference.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

You speaking for other people again??? I thought you said you were going to stop doing that.

Actually, she's not - she's clearly expressing her own opinion.

One of the reasons I think...

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Actually, she's not - she's clearly expressing her own opinion.

Three edits later, I THINK I got it.....

Thanks, Leo

[MadAzza]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I don't think what Lt. Watada said in this interview was meant to be construed as putting down those who have done "their" homework and can in all good conscience say that they understand the reasons why and the implications of our being in the Middle East.

Of course it was not "meant to be construed" that way. Nobody wants to be caught saying, "If you people would just read more, you'd agree with me!" That was supposed to go over everyone's head. In my opinion.

But when 48% of our own fighting forces stationed over there say they don't have a clear understanding of what their mission is---and mind you, these are people who are laying their lives on the line---it's no small wonder that people in this country are as uninvolved and in the dark as they are.

Statistics and polls mean little. Look at how the questions are phrased. That tells you more about who commissioned the poll(s) than it tells you about 48 percent of this or that.

On the one hand, you have an Administration (as is typical of most Administrations) that uses subterfuge and lies to do its dirty deeds and then you have a national media that was, until very recently, so beholden to the Administration for whatever reason that they only chose to parrot back what the White House wanted...and to think "A Nation of Sheep" was written how many years ago? There should be a sequel "A Nation of Sheep Redux" published. Funny how things change and yet sadly remain the same.

Funny how everyone thinks everyone else is the sheep. That is, everyone who doesn't see things their way. Same old arrogance.

I agree with much of what you post about the Iraq war and the Bush administration. But my job forces me to consider everyone's point of view. I interact with a lot of people I disagree with, every day. They aren't uninformed, nor are they sheep. They are people who have had different experiences from mine, whose lives have shaped them and given rise to opinions that, while I don't agree with them, are perfectly legitimate in their own right. Through e-mail conversations that sometimes start out somewhat caustic, we usually end up realizing that we agree about much more than we disagree about. We just disagree about how to achieve what we all want -- peace, prosperity and all that.

This idea of Americans being sheep really offends me. Why is it always liberals who feel it's acceptable to label people that way, when they march in lockstep at least as much as anyone else? Their unwillingness to believe that people who are different from them could possibly be free thinkers is a hallmark of their arrogance. It's also one reason I no longer use that label (liberal, not sheep!) to describe myself. I don't want to be associated with that attitude.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Three edits later, I THINK I got it.....

Well done, good sir.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Cite, please.

Statistics and polls mean little.

Careful, MadAzza - you'll get stung by the "cognitive dissonance" bug! (Just teasing.)

[nachodaddy]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

War Maddy!!!!!

That "if you don't agree with me, you must be a sheep" is both tired and predictable.

I do like sheep tho'. With fava beans and a nice kee-anty.

[MadAzza]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Careful, MadAzza - you'll get stung by the "cognitive dissonance" bug! (Just teasing.)

Aye, but you left out the part where I said you have to read the poll questions yourself, rather than just taking the numbers at face value. At least that way you're an *informed* misled person!

And I really think that a statement like "People are less informed than they were 40 years ago" needs some sort of backup.

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Aye, but you left out the part where I said you have to read the poll questions yourself, rather than just taking the numbers at face value. At least that way you're an *informed* misled person!

And I really think that a statement like "People are less informed than they were 40 years ago" needs some sort of backup.

Uhhh...excuse me. I'm informed and I was born 50 years ago.hehehehe

Aunty Lynn

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Aye, but you left out the part where I said you have to read the poll questions yourself, rather than just taking the numbers at face value. At least that way you're an *informed* misled person!

And I really think that a statement like "People are less informed than they were 40 years ago" needs some sort of backup.

For your edification, Maddie, here's a Zogby poll of troops in Iraq. I think Zogby is more widely accepted than even Gallup nowadays. And mea culpa, I said 48% of troops polled said their understanding of their mission was murky. The poll actually found "only" 42% who believed that.

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Uhhh...excuse me. I'm informed and I was born 50 years ago.hehehehe

Yeah, but were you MORE informed 40 years ago?

[MadAzza]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

For your edification, Maddie, here's a Zogby poll of troops in Iraq. I think Zogby is more widely accepted than even Gallup nowadays.

I don't usually get edified until after 5 p.m., but ... what the heck!

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Yeah, but were you MORE informed 40 years ago?

Juss playing Maddie. My bad.

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Yeah, but were you MORE informed 40 years ago?

At the time, I probably thought I was (precocious li'l sh!t, so cute...NOT!)

[TuNnL]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

A statement like “People are less informed than they were 40 years ago” needs some sort of backup.

It’s really quite simple. Let me give you a quick refresher. In the 1960s, it was fashionable to be involved in politics because people respected, even loved their leaders. Then a president a.k.a the King of Camelot was assassinated. Then MLK. Then JFK’s brother. That alone was enough to disenchant an enormous amount of people from the entire political process. Then the Vietnam War ended (finally) and there was no reason to protest. Then came the ‘80s which ushered in light years of technology that produced MTV, hip-hop culture, cocaine, Nintendo and Sega Genesis, morphing into 24-hour computer gaming (LAN parties anyone? See my avatar for more), crystal meth, the proliferation of the Internet (including eBay, chat rooms, mySpace, and P2P networking), and numerous other distractions that created an entire Generation X and beyond of ignorant, obsessive-compulsive drug-baby A.D.D.-medicated robots far more cognizant of who’s Fantasy Football team rocks, then world or national affairs. A typical answer from these tens of millions of youngsters: “Like, who cares who the President is? I don’t give a f**k. Voting is mainly cool, ‘cause we get some extra time off from work.”

Yes, anyone naïve enough to believe we are more informed today then four decades ago is the same person wondering how in the world their kid got kidnapped and raped by an online predator. Give me a break.