Ethnic politics?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Manoa, I disagree. He believes the way he does for a reason, which isn't being "full of it". He isn't the only one who believes this way, and to a lesser degree (but on the same track of thought), there are many Hawaiians who consider blood quantum % as measurements of Hawaiianness, in descending order.

The problem with that, and the solution for it, isn't about one Hawaiian schooling another (and I *hate* that). It is about a well-rounded grasp on our history, most complete when it is grounded upon the actual words of those who actually said it--by the Hawaiians, through Hawaiian.

[damontucker]

Re: Ethnic politics?

there are many Hawaiians who consider blood quantum % as measurements of Hawaiianness, in descending order.

Then what happens 200 - 300 years from now when the blood quantum has been watered down by so many Hawaiians marrying non-hawaiians like my wife and raising kids that will continue to do this for many years still to come?

Will there then be "No Hawaiians" since his 50% Blood quantum rule might have been watered down to about 5% Hawaiian in 200 years?

Are my great great grand kids going to be scrapping with other kids saying.... "I got 1/256 part hawaiian yeah... vs.... I got 1/128th Hawaiian in me."

It is sad that the Hawaiian Bloodline is thinning out... however, this does not mean that the Hawaiian Culture needs to be thinned out.

How did I get myself into this mess...? (Wait... I married a Hawaiian who used to be part of the "hate haole" club.... My wifes own karma i guess )

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Then what happens 200 - 300 years ago when the blood quantum has been watered down by so many Hawaiians marrying non-hawaiians like my wife and raising kids that will continue to do this for many years still to come?

Will there then be "No Hawaiians" since his 50% Blood quantum rule might have been watered down to about 5% Hawaiian in 200 years?

Are my great great grand kids going to be scrapping with other kids saying.... "I got 1/256 part hawaiian yeah... vs.... I got 1/128th Hawaiian in me."

It is sad that the Hawaiian Bloodline is thinning out... however, this does not mean that the Hawaiian Culture needs to be thinned out.

How did I get myself into this mess...? (Wait... I married a Hawaiian who used to be part of the "hate haole" club.... My wifes own karma i guess )

Manoa, I mean this sincerely, ok? If I were to find out that my husband couldn't talk on the internet about ethnicity without personally mentioning my background as clarification/justification to the degree that you do, I would kick his ass. Just because your wife married you and loves you does not equate to her blanket permission for you to use her as your personal kanaka totem whenever and whereever you chose.

Please stop it. I don't look to you as an authority on all things biracial. Free her up from the same over-exposed confines.

aloha, P

[damontucker]

Re: Ethnic politics?

I believe my wife does read most of my posts...however, she doesn't feel comfortable posting, she just enjoys reading...she doesn't necessarily feel like writing, expressing or feel the need to jump in I guess...

and I was being serious.

Will continue this through PM if you would like.

Hugs,
Manoa

[kamuelakea]

Re: Ethnic politics?

WHAT!?!?! Where do you get off cutting determination rights at the 100% mark?? ALL of my ancestors who were living in the time of the Kingdom lived in Hawai'i. ALL of my ancestors who were not koko Hawai'i were naturalized Hawaiian citizens, pledging allegiance under Kings Kamehameha III, IV, Lunalilo and Kalakaua.

I get off cuz my interest is Hawaiians, not people who are mostly immigrant just like any other immigrant.

You cannot save the nene goose by using mallard ducks and painting them to look like nene.

Either we are concerned with saving HAWAIIANS or this is all about whats in it for me.

I don't think it is fair for people like me with less than 50% Hawaiian koko to steal anymore from the few real Hawaiians that are left.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Ethnic politics?

In this order, you need to:

1)develop a high fluency in Hawaiian. So that you will have the ability read and comprehend the Hawaiian newspapers of the 19th century
2)then you need to read the damned things, and not rely on 20th century English b.s. versions like Shoal of Time, and all the other ones that make it sound like we were weaker than we actually were.
3)then you read up on the United Nations and international law concerning the definition of nation and citizenry of such, and what our rights of self-determination are, and then WHO gets that right
4)and THEN you come back and talk about self-determination. Because this is the *biggest* piece of uneducated bullsh*t I have read out of your mouth.

First ting aunty. No worry. I'm nobody. I'm not in a position to make the determination.

But seems to me you're getting huhu cuz my interpretation cuts you off from the gravy train.

I say if you are more than 50% immigrant then get out of the way and try to help real Hawaiians whose ancestors continued to marry Hawaiians achieve self determination.

Anything less is selfish in my humble opinion.

[damontucker]

Re: Ethnic politics?

I say if you are more than 50% immigrant then get out of the way and try to help real Hawaiians whose ancestors continued to marry Hawaiians achieve self determination.

They married and had sex within their own families. That wouldn't be legal now...Cousins may marry, but a blood relationship between the prospective bride and bridegroom cannot be closer than first cousins. For example, uncle-niece, half-brother-sister may not marry.

And love is blind... you marry who you want to marry generally... not whom society wants you to marry... at least in the U.S.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Ethnic politics?

They married and had sex within their own families. That wouldn't be legal now...Cousins may marry, but a blood relationship between the prospective bride and bridegroom cannot be closer than first cousins. For example, uncle-niece, half-brother-sister may not marry.

And love is blind... you marry who you want to marry generally... not whom society wants you to marry... at least in the U.S.

Chee, I'm off youah ignore list already.

Fassss ah?

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Wrong. What Case assumed was that because his wife was an AJA and the sister of the wife of a bigtime plantation asian insider he would get AJA votes. WRONG!!!!! ED. A samurai's worst nightmare is for a white devil to be boinking their girls. Case LOST votes from AJAs when he thought he was gaining them.

Your assumption here is that Case was playing for the "plantation AJAs" in the first place. Lloyd Nekoba, Cayetano's campaign manager and Case's brother-in-law, isn't a "plantation AJA" at all. If Case after the AJA vote after all, he was courting upper-middle class Sansei and Yonsei voters (like those in the district Case knows, Manoa). Case has been railing against "the machine" since he's been in politics. That includes plantation politics and the AJA vote. And that vote is not what it used to be. No, Case's prime constituency was the Caucasian haole vote, a smart demographic choice, but poorly executed.

I'm not sure how much credence I lend to the "Audrey Nakamura as peace pipe to the AJAs" explanation. Assuming she's politically revelant at all, she's probably your typical run-of-the-mill trophy wife, rather than any deliberate attempt to build an ethnic base.

In any case, the three major mistakes Case made, in my view, were:

(1) Splitting the Caucasian haole vote with the war issue. Tom Gill Democrats who might otherwise have been responsive to a "clean-the-old-boys-out" call didn't like the idea of electing a Republicrat to do the job.

(2) Failing to build a base. Case went on the attack without ever thinking of defense. "Transition" was a stupid theme; it's boring and it doesn't activate anyone to vote. The same with "moderate" voters. "Moderate" people usually don't vote because they are too busy sitting on the fence--and when they do, their votes go in so many different directions that, as a cohort, they don't matter. Case ran the positive part of his campaign almost purely on personality. Surprise, surprise--Ed Case is no John Kennedy. Of course, the problem was that the only real thing Case was standing for was ethnic cleansing, and we know he can't say that in public.

(3) The Hawaiian factor. As I explained earlier, Hawaiian Republicans swung this election. Case's whole strategy revolved around moving moderate Caucasian Republicans from the yellow ballot to the purple one. These Republican voters, together with anti-machine Democrats, upper-middle class fiscal conservatives, and business owners, might have been enough to beat traditional Hawai'i Democrats (as they did in the Lingle-Hirono match-up). The problem is that many Hawaiian Republicans dumped Kawananakoa and decided to cross-over to save Akaka. That left the Republican primary to the Bob Hogue Republicans. So that means each Case crossover was probably cancelled by an Akaka crossover. That foiled Case's plan to top the traditional Democratic voters--and saved Akaka. That's why I said Hawaiians won this one for Akaka.

Hawaiian votes are politically irrelevent since "Hawaiian" is all over the map and since "Hawaiians" don't vote. AJA block voters win and lose elections. That's why Hawaii's legilature is about 100% over represented by Japanese relative to their population.

By your definition of "Hawaiian" (50% or more native blood), this may be true. But I'm including toenail Hawaiians because this is a constituency that Lingle has actively courted. One of Lingle's long-term strategies is to put Hawaiians firmly back in the "R" column. That's why they were a significant factor in this past election.

Japanese representation in the legislature is, to a certain extent, a remnant of the AJA bloc votes. But you're also ignoring the power of districting. Statewide, demographics of the death knell of the AJA vote. But in individual House and Senate races, the AJAs still hold a powerful plurality of the voting population. Furthermore, incumbency is strong in the Legislature. Nevertheless, activating voters against specific legislators (as was done to those who voted against Bronster) can sometimes be successful. Over-representation can continue in spite of demographic shifts because of access to funding or dynastiscism. In any other words, kamuelakea, there are many other explanations besides the one you offer. Sure, racialism may be a factor. But is it the determinative, all-powerful factor? Not convinced it is. Can Hawaiians swing an election? I think so.

If Hawaiians didn't matter, why was Akaka out at Hawaiian Homelands campaigning to turn out their votes? If AJAs were all that matter, why wasn't he in Manoa or Aiea or some other AJA stronghold, signwaving with Lynn Waihe'e or whatever you think turns AJAs on?

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

First ting aunty. No worry. I'm nobody. I'm not in a position to make the determination.

But seems to me you're getting huhu cuz my interpretation cuts you off from the gravy train.

I say if you are more than 50% immigrant then get out of the way and try to help real Hawaiians whose ancestors continued to marry Hawaiians achieve self determination.

Anything less is selfish in my humble opinion.

Maybe "anything less is selfish", but politics is selfish. That's the field you're dealing with.

Even with the toenails, the Hawaiian community is fighting for its survival. Take out those and Hawaiians become insignificant. You wouldn't be building a nation; you'd be building a tennis club. What's the point of self-determination for an extinct population? I don't think you'll even get the "real" Hawaiians to sign on to it. I know I wouldn't.

I'm 50% Hawaiian; my mother married a Caucasian. I married a Korean woman, because I'd known her since we were children and she's my best friend. At the same time, I believe in self-determination, even independence, if the Hawaiian community so chooses. I see what Westernization has done to Hawaiians, our culture and our heritage, and it pains me. What do I do? Do I leave my wife and children, marry a Hawaiian woman, and commit my life to self-determination? Do I just pretend to be another haole? Do I cut my children off from their ancestors and their heritage?

I think I understand where you're coming from. It's annoying to see other people, like Kenneth Conklin, commandeer Hawaiian as if it's purely an attitude, as if my ancestors and their history in these islands don't matter. But blood quantum divides Hawaiians from each other. In my view, if you can trace your geneaology to the aboriginal peoples of these islands, you're a Hawaiian. Two generations of intermarriage does not negate centuries of dust in the land.

[damontucker]

Re: Ethnic politics?

I don't know who you are Mr. Maple...

but I like the way you put things... In THIS most recent post. (take out a few here and there...but I hear what your getting at)

I hope my son will feel the same as you do in the future when he has to explain his Ethnicity.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Your assumption here is that Case was playing for the "plantation AJAs" in the first place. Lloyd Nekoba, Cayetano's campaign manager and Case's brother-in-law, isn't a "plantation AJA" at all.

He ran Waihee's campaign. If not a plantation AJA, what is he??

[kamuelakea]

Re: Ethnic politics?

If Case after the AJA vote after all, he was courting upper-middle class Sansei and Yonsei voters (like those in the district Case knows, Manoa).

You are funny. A haole "republican" courting Sansei and Yonsei?

You gotta be kidding. You are from Hawaii, no?

[kamuelakea]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Case has been railing against "the machine" since he's been in politics. That includes plantation politics and the AJA vote.

Keoni, Just look at the districts Case won. North Kona, Kahala, Kailua, Hawaii Kai, etc. The only districts he won were the traditionally Haole areas. You can't win most seats with only Haole votes and definitely not a statewide race.
Going against the Plantation Machine in this race is either stupid or suicide. Don't know which he was hoping for.

That's why I think he really thought he would get AJA votes cuz of the wife. But I knew he wouldn't.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Ethnic politics?

And that vote is not what it used to be.

It may not be what it used to be but it still wins races and puts plantation asians in elected and appointed and HGEA positions at least 100% overrepresented relative to the population of Hawaii.

Weaker? Maybe. But its still a one party town and the threat against Case as this being "Suicide" is evidence that much of Hawaii still operates in that old closed racial society known as the Plantation Asian Hawaii, aka Da Localz.