Gun Control

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Now if you're asking me what I think some of the causes of this increased violence could be, I would guess:

You are totally missing the point. The empirical evidence indicates that violence is related to proliferation, availability, and access to firearms.

STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

I agree with that. To me the really sad part is the middle class got sold on handsome Ronald Reagan, who was always quite open about wanting to destroy the economics that produced the middle class. Unions routinely get such horrible press, by a press 100 % owned by the rich elite, but unions did produce the 40 hour work week, work safety rules, and people benefit every day from those horrible liberal institutions like pure food and drug laws, the epa, medicare, its a long laundry list, and people have been taught to hate it. Liberal is a bad word. Conservatives laugh at Detroit collapsing. Its collapsing because its so much cheaper to make cars in non union states, with low wages and bad health coverage, but was it ever really necessary to move those jobs? The auto companies were at their most prosperous when in union Detroit. Henry Ford, though anti union, did understand that paying good wages to his workers ultimately helped himself because WORKERS ARE CUSTOMERS. Money is a flow. People individually and collectively in the economy function best when the money flows, its not that different from wanting a good blood flow in your own body, or a good flow in your digestive tract.

I think violence comes about because of a number of reasons. Drunkenness. Drugs (the speedy kinds). Gangs just like happened during Prohibition but God forbid we ever learn from history. From time to time people just go nuts, and there are always a number of nut cases out there. If an angry husband has only his fists he can do some damage, but he can end dozens of lives with a gun. A nut case can stand on a street corner screaming obscenities at children but if he has a gun he can slaughter any number of them. I am not 100 % against guns. Hunting is fine even though it isn't my 'bag', and a lot of people actually do need guns for personal protection. But to sing the same old song, why does anybody need a machine gun? And why does the NRA stand steadfast against background checks, to do all we can (can't be perfect but we can do better) in keeping guns out of the hands of those delusional people who do open up on theaters or elementary schools. The view that the 2nd amendment has to be 100 % carried to the vastest most extreme limits is absurd, freedom of speech is limited, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, etc, and you probably can't even sacrifice an ox in church under freedom of religion and you sure as hell can't kill people, legally anyway, with the defense that God told you to. All limits we all realize need to be placed on 1st amendment rights, and yet some how no limits on the 2nd amendment. Nerve gas OK? Why not? Machine guns are OK, whats wrong with stockpiling nerve gas?

But its out of our hands. The machine guns are out there and they're going to stay out there and from time to time there will be massacres. Just accept it.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

I'm just trying to understand the conservative mind set here, how am I doing?

I have no clue. Does being supportive of gun ownership automatically make me Conservative (TM)? I don't consider myself Conservative (TM). Perhaps I'm just confused and don't realize I'm Conservative (TM). Sorta like Gay (TM) people are just confused and deep down they're really Straight (TM)?



Now if you're asking me what I think some of the causes of this increased violence could be, I would guess:

1) The wealthy want more wealth. Wealth equals power. Power can be used to hoard more wealth.

2) America and the middle class were fairly wealthy after our success in World War 2.

3) The wealthy see the middle class as cattle, to be fattened up and harvested. One way to harvest that wealth is to encourage a consumer economy.

4) The middle class are seduced into buying solutions to their problems instead of solving them for themselves. If your toaster breaks, don't learn how it works and fix it, just buy a new one. If the oil in your car needs changing, don't learn how to do it yourself, just pay someone else to do it for you. Don't learn how to protect yourself, let your taxes pay for someone else to do it. This all leads to a lack of self reliance.

5) The post WWII flush of wealth made individual Americans less reliant on their family and neighbors. People leave their families and live all across the country. Instead of learning how to coexist with neighbors, they buy enough land to create a buffer zone. If a neighborhood goes bad, instead of working with their neighbors to solve it, they just leave. Individual wealth and mobility has lessened community reliance.

6) The siphoning of wealth from the middle class, the lack of self-reliance, and the erosion of community reliance has made the average American poorer and weaker. This causes poverty (which is more than just lack of money. Read Ruby Payne's "A Framework for Understanding Poverty")

7) Poverty causes stress which leads to more violence.


That's just one of many possible causes. Maybe Americans are selfish. Supposedly, if every human lived the average American lifestyle, our planet could only support 1 billion people. We're currently around 7 billion. It's a good thing the planet has all these poor people, so a few of us can flame each other on forums

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Let me guess. Violence in America has increased because of the liberals. Social Security. Medicare. Most of all, healthy school lunches for children. The welfare state. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the war on drugs causing gangs and gang violence and guns freely available even to the maniacally criminally insane. Its video games. Tens of millions of people play video games and they all go out and get sub machine guns and open up on elementary schools. Its rock 'n roll with Words. Words can be prohibited, unlike guns, because you have a constitutional right to guns but not to freedom of speech. And everybody knows sticks and stones can break your bones and words can also hurt you. I'm just trying to understand the conservative mind set here, how am I doing?

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

I have a strong premonition that we have not heard the last of Zimmerman getting into trouble.

Yup, Zimmerman is losing it (if he hadn't already a long time ago). Not surprising that O'Mara is distancing himself from him.

Gun owners who say, "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six", underestimate the financial and psychological punishment of using a lethal force weapon in self defense, even if you are justified.

A cop told me a story about another cop he knew who was forced to shoot a wanted criminal who was about to kill him. Totally justified self defense. None the less the officer had a break down over the guilt he felt, lost his job, lost his wife, and became an addict.

Former street thug, Marc MacYoung, believes one reason why violent criminals stop being violent when they get older is they simply burn out on harming human beings. There's a price to pay for taking a life. That's why they had firing squads, so that each person could believe their gun was loaded with a blank.

This study comes from the the Harvard School of Public Health and we know how biased they are. NOT!

I read the abstract for the article, and I question the worth of its findings.

"This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%"

So basically what they noticed is if someone wants to be violent and they have access to a gun, they will most likely use it instead of an inferior option...How much time and money was spent to "discover" this mundane observation? The reason why firearms exist is because they make it easier to kill, both physically and psychologically.

A more important question to research would be: Has violence in America (with and without firearms) increased over the past 50 years and if so why?


What's interesting is Huffington post's careful wording to make things sound more provocative:

AJPH Article: "The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 1981–2010"
Huffington: "Gun Violence Study Links State Levels Of Gun Ownership And Homicide"

The omission of a single word can change the meaning of a statement immensely.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Two Colorado legislators who voted for stricter gun control have been recalled in special elections. Combined with voter suppression laws to keep brown, black, elderly, poor, and/or young people from voting, the gun nuts ability to drive elections assures a fascist authoritarian gun totin future for America. Wow. Despite Columbine and the theater massacre Colorado votes for guns. Fine. I am fine with that. And if America is committed to becoming fascist authoritarian, Republican destruction of the economy is actually for the best.

On the topic of blind people with guns. It does happen. A friend owned a house, rented to a blind Vietnam War vet who liked to get drunk and fire his gun at any hour of the day or night. Equal rights. The neighborhood took up a petition to get my friend to evict the guy. So thats how popular blind people with guns are in the real world. Maybe the guy can rent a room in your neighborhood. And really, if a few kids get killed or paralyzed or somebody's mom or wife gets killed or paralyzed who cares as long as that precious precious right to guns stands. If Colorado learns, good. If not, why care.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

Gun Violence Study Links State Levels Of Gun Ownership And Homicide

This study comes from the the Harvard School of Public Health and we know how biased they are. NOT!


STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

So then. Why is the homocide rate falling while gun ownership is increasing?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...993-study-says

Someone is remiss in their studies, and I think it is openly anti-gun Yale.

Everyone is political, ignoring science.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

CNN had an interesting story this morning about legally blind people getting guns in Iowa. You know...this gun problem might just take care of itself after all.

Elucidate.

The Demonists (Democrats actually Communists or Socialists), are pushing for equal rights for everyone, so why not blind shooters, blind drivers, etc. Give them reasonable accommodations at the cost of 30 billion per year of our taxes (funny how we go into national debt whenever demonists are in office) to make us all equal.

How about mouth control, writing control. It's coming. After we gut the 2nd amendment, the 1st is next.

Entry Visas to Switzerland (to live, not to visit) have a 10-year backlog. Luxembourg is another choice - reasonable government - and only a few years backlog.

Or (who woulda thunk?) we can reform our out-of-control government.

Right.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Gun Violence Study Links State Levels Of Gun Ownership And Homicide

This study comes from the the Harvard School of Public Health and we know how biased they are. NOT!


STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

CNN had an interesting story this morning about legally blind people getting guns in Iowa. You know...this gun problem might just take care of itself after all.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Zimmerman is in police custody in Florida for some kind of domestic violence, and a gun present but not used. Yes, a loose cannon.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Iowa Issues Gun Permits To The Blind, Allowing Them To Carry In Public

"When you shoot a gun, you take it out and point and shoot, and I don't necessarily think eyesight is necessary," said Michael Barber, a blind man interviewed by The Register at a gun store in Iowa last month.

Absurd !!!!!!!!! (utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false) Gun Nuts!

STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

Saw a posting recently about how, in Hawai`i, if someone gets killed or injured on a hiking trail, the State just shuts down the trail. Same thing for 'attractive nuisance' trails like Stairway to Heaven.'

Now, with visitors and locals getting killed by sharks, there's talk of shutting down some beaches, even though less than 1% of swimmers get attacked, because, "if we can save one life, it's worth it." Sound familiar? It's the old "assault weapon" argument.

We are being psychologically manipulated for the benefit of the few and powerful.

If we took all cars off the road and provided comprehensive public transportation (you can get to anywhere from anywhere without private autos), we would save more lives than if guns were eliminated (and eliminate road-rage shootings, too!), but that's not why guns are on the elimination list; the powerful people are scared we will want our freedom back.

1. There is NO excuse for making personal protection non-lethal,
2. Parental-style protection of normal citizens is inexcusable,
3. In spite of all we do, some people will die prematurely; if we are sufficiently educated about the dangers and can prepare properly we should be able to choose our actions so long as thy do not endanger others.

Maybe a bit off-topic, but it's an intertwined philosophy.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

Knowing Florida (only from its record) we wouldn't be surprised to see Zimmerman elected governor or senator there.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

George Zimmerman has a history of using poor judgement and making bad decisions. He is the last person who should have a gun. He is representative of too many gun nuts. I have a strong premonition that we have not heard the last of Zimmerman getting into trouble.

STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!