Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

[sinjin]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

I think that it's time for me to take a "vacation" from HT for a while, lest I get angry and pissed off. I'm sure that my presence here won't be missed much.

Aloha,

Jonah K

You're the brightest one here. I would miss your input greatly.

Aaron will get over it. Let's all forget that he's a haole like his dad.

Aaron,
I could tell you were a haole without seeing your picture although I think I saw it here somewhere. http://www.hawaiithreads.com/attachm...tachmentid=125 Doesn't even take one to know one although I am too. My father as well.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

Me too, theirs a lot of whacko's out there.......

Those of us who post things on the internet, especially if we participate in any kind of public activities (like myself) are quite easy targets; I'm pretty public myself, not hard to locate, and have been a target of internet harassment - it's the price I pay for what I do. We're fortunate that we don't live in a region where people and their families are commonly harassed by being kidnapped, tortured & killed.

I didn't see the troublesome posts, but from what I can piece together, it does sound like Jonah K stepped over a "decent behavior" line, and Aaron was rightfully indignant; attacking him is one thing, drawing his family into it is quite another. I hope everyone can settle down and return to calmer discussions.

Mahalo, Pua'i Mana'o, for your comments - I think you phrased it very well.

[admin]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

Thanks, Helen, for taking action. Jonah K. did commit a significant breach - if not of the law, of decency and common sense.

Yes many of us are onymous on the Internet, and personal information may be widely available, much of it through our own doing. But our friends and relatives who may be linked to us publicly are not part of this community or any debate, and dragging them into them is appalling.

Further, among the few rules that are stated here is that ideas are to be discussed, debated, and dissected, not other members. If someone wants to make their race, orientation, or favorite color of underwear an element of their argument, that's their kuleana. But to try and make such personal things about others users an issue, in some sorry attempt to pigeonhole or dismiss their point of view, is wrong.

I hope everyone takes a moment to cool off, and avoid the urge to pile on or belabor these points. Let's try and revive a more reasonable discussion of the original topic here, or just move on to other things.

[Jonah K]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

Thanks, Helen, for taking action. Jonah K. did commit a significant breach - if not of the law, of decency and common sense.

Since that appears to be the "official verdict" on the situation (after a "rush to judgement"), it's probably best that I make my "vacation" permanent.

Ironically, some of my 'ohana know both of Aaron's parents and we've always thought highly of them. Unfortunately, I neglected to use the "PM function" and Aaron overreacted somewhat.

Carry on and keep the great discussions going.

Aloha,

Jonah K

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

I have to disagree with Admin and Helen. I don't think Jonah did anything wrong. Out of curiosity, I fired up Google and looked for "stene" and "hawaii" and immediately found Aaron, his dad, his mom, and (I think) his younger brother. Easy to find, all of them. It's not like Jonah was posting information that wasn't already readily available. Get used to it, folks. Unless you make a strenuous effort to avoid it, you'll be listed on the web somewhere.

[Pedro]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

Since that appears to be the "official verdict" on the situation (after a "rush to judgement"), it's probably best that I make my "vacation" permanent.

Ironically, some of my 'ohana know both of Aaron's parents and we've always thought highly of them. Unfortunately, I neglected to use the "PM function" and Aaron overreacted somewhat.

Carry on and keep the great discussions going.

Aloha,

Jonah K

Don't go man, don't do it your to young to END it right now , put your fingers back on your keypad type hawaiithreads.com and keep POSTING Your going to be missed

[sinjin]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

I have to disagree with Admin and Helen. I don't think Jonah did anything wrong. Out of curiosity, I fired up Google and looked for "stene" and "hawaii" and immediately found Aaron, his dad, his mom, and (I think) his younger brother. Easy to find, all of them. It's not like Jonah was posting information that wasn't already readily available. Get used to it, folks. Unless you make a strenuous effort to avoid it, you'll be listed on the web somewhere.

I agree with this assessment completely.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

I have to disagree with Admin and Helen. I don't think Jonah did anything wrong. Out of curiosity, I fired up Google and looked for "stene" and "hawaii" and immediately found Aaron, his dad, his mom, and (I think) his younger brother. Easy to find, all of them. It's not like Jonah was posting information that wasn't already readily available. Get used to it, folks. Unless you make a strenuous effort to avoid it, you'll be listed on the web somewhere.

But what was Jonah's point in posting whatever he posted here? Did it add to the discussion, or was it simply meant to stir up heat from Aaron, which it succeeded in doing? There are some here who post in a thread only to get a rise out of someone else, which contributes nothing. (I know; I'm guilty of it myself.)

As admin said (if you will permit me to edit slightly for emphasis):

Jonah K. did commit a significant breach...of decency.

As for this:

it's probably best that I make my "vacation" permanent.

Every time I see something similar, I get tired of the childhood mentality of "you'll be sorry when I'm gone." I'm sorry to see those who have contributed greatly in other circumstances leave because they can't stand the heat of a discussion, or can't accept that, once in a while, they might offend or have it suggested that they apologize, but be an adult about it.

Just go - or take a breather and lurk for a while, or ignore HT altogether - but drop the dramatic exit speeches.

[sinjin]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

But what was Jonah's point in posting whatever he posted here?

To respond to this would be my guess:

...how in the heck do you know I'm haole ?

[Pedro]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

Just go - or take a breather and lurk for a while, or ignore HT altogether - but drop the dramatic exit speeches.[/QUOTE]

Stage one is to your left auditioning for dramatic speaches "Romeo Oh Romeo wher-" oh yeah that was taken already!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

So, Jonah's post was in relation to Aaron's family's racial makeup, and not about the development issue raised in the SB editorial. Mahalo, sinjin.

[admin]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

Jonah, no one has asked you to leave. You agreed that you made a mistake. You apologized, the posts were edited... as far as I'm concerned, lesson learned, and we all can brush the soot off and move forward again.

I maintain that posting the name and photo of a member's father was inappropriate. Not because the information is secret, but because it's irrelevant, and needlessly personal. It was an attempt to discount an opinion by pigeonholing the author based on a personal trait, rather than on the merits of the argument.

Like I said, there's lots of stuff on the Internet, and many of us are an open book in that sense. Aaron has written about politics and made his views known in testimony, and I'd argue that citing his own words in a letter to the editor or blog post on issue {x} in a discussion on issue {x} is more than fair.

But posting a personal detail not related to the topic in an attempt to embarrass, intimidate, discredit, or simply annoy someone personally is out of line. Especially, again, in a case like this where the spotlight is unfairly pointed at someone who's not even part of the discussion, or community.

Take a debate on Kamehameha Schools admissions. I argue point A, you argue point B. If I wrote a column for Ka Leo or blogged a rant or testified at the Legislature on the issue, I can't complain if you cite that as part of the debate. We're arguing the issue.

But if you post a photo of my kids and say they're part haole so I clearly don't understand or am biased,that's irrelevant, unfair to them, and again, makes it personal.

You can find out more than you'd ever want to know about me. But not everything about me is relevant or appropriate to every topic.

[sinjin]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

So, Jonah's post was in relation to Aaron's family's racial makeup, and not about the development issue raised in the SB editorial. Mahalo, sinjin.

Welcome. I must say I chafe a little at the disrespect shown Jonah K for thinking to leave HT altogether. He's not just an anybody.

[Miulang]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

He's not just an anybody.

You can say that again, Sin. He knows more about the "real" Hawaii and the kanaka maoli than most of us on HT put together in one room know (and if you put him and Pua in the same room, we would definitely be blown away good )

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Thought Provoking Op-Ed Piece in the SB

I get tired of the childhood mentality of "you'll be sorry when I'm gone." I'm sorry to see those who have contributed greatly in other circumstances leave because they can't stand the heat of a discussion, or can't accept that, once in a while, they might offend or have it suggested that they apologize, but be an adult about it. Just go - or take a breather and lurk for a while, or ignore HT altogether - but drop the dramatic exit speeches.

Indeed. This all reminds me of the recent situation here where a certain person went absolutely ballistic over receiving negative reputation points and flooded the site with posts making it sound like getting a red chiclet was a life-or-death situation.
Sheesh.

That being said, I will put in my two cents and say that it never ever should be acceptable to drag a poster's family into a flame war. NEVER.

And Ryan sure has my sympathy for all the cyber-babysitting he's had to do here recently. Good thing we all pay him such a good salary to do it.